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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Help me understand the Oxford College system

64 replies

beansandsosages · 26/09/2020 22:12

DS has just started year 12 and may want to apply for Oxford next year, to do maths, engineering or computing. We know students have to apply to a specific college, but don't understand how that works. For example, if there are 180 maths places across the whole university, are they evenly divided between the 45 colleges (4 each)? I guess not, so how do I find out which ones have the most maths places? Does he have more chance of getting in by applying to a college that has, say, 30 maths places than another that only has 15? What happens if he applies to the college that he likes the look of, does well in the admissions exam/interview, but they don't have any maths places left, do they pass his application to another college instead? Can you list colleges in order of preference? And where is all this explained (as I feel like the only person in the world who doesn't understand it)?

OP posts:
mateysmum · 27/09/2020 12:59

Sorry for all the typos. My keyboard is a bit dyslexic!

itssquidstella · 27/09/2020 13:07

@mateysmum I went to St Hilda's and it really isn't far out - it's about three minutes further away than Magdalen! Also really convenient for the Cowley Rd.

mateysmum · 27/09/2020 13:26

I was at St Anne's so St Hilda^s seemed like a long way! Grin

orangenasturtium · 27/09/2020 13:32

The university publishes admissions statistics and your DS can find more information by searching for Freedom of Information requests about admissions stats for maths, if he wants to apply strategically eg number of applicants : number of successful candidates for maths at each college, the average MAT score for successful candidates at different colleges. The Norrington table is also useful as PPs have said. The Common Framework application system has evened out the playing field largely though so applying strategically is less important now.

www.ox.ac.uk/sites/files/oxford/Admissions%20Report%202019.pdf

www.ox.ac.uk/about/facts-and-figures/admissions-statistics/undergraduate-students/current

www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/maths_admissions_stats_2019_entr

The unofficial student guides are a good place to start when it comes to choosing a personal preference. Does your DS want to be in a old, traditional college or a more modern one? What is the accomodation like, which years get college accommodation? Some colleges attract different student types (eg public school vs state school, some are more academic than others). Does the college have lots of formal events eg formal hall (wearing gowns at dinner) every night or just once a term? Some colleges are wealthier than others so can offer better accommodation, financial support (eg travel/hardship funds), and have more funds for tutorials outside college. The other important factor is who is the college tutor/tutors for his subject and what are their interests?

orangenasturtium · 27/09/2020 14:19

St Hilda's isn't far out @mateysmum! Magdalen has accommodation opposite St Hilda's and the Liddell Building (Christchurch) is even further along Iffley Road. It's more convenient for the city centre than the North Oxford colleges and easier cycling, less hills, and nearer the river if you row! Grin St Hugh's isn't really far out either but it is uphill going back to college...

I guess distance from the maths department is another minor thing your DS could consider when choosing a college, OP.

ontheworldmap.com/uk/city/oxford/oxford-colleges-map.jpg

minipie · 27/09/2020 16:04

Just to add OP, in normal times all the colleges do open days. Visiting a few is so helpful to get a feel of the attitude of a college. I went to an open day at one very well known college and was put off as all the students leading the day gave the message of “We’re all fab here, so only apply here if you’re as amazing as us”. Whereas the one I eventually chose gave a message of “Great to meet you, hope you choose here”.

jeanne16 · 27/09/2020 17:10

Choose a College you prefer but don’t get too hung up on it. Nearly everyone applying to an Oxford College will be interviewed by 3 or 4 colleges after which they may get an offer from one of them.

Some students think they can improve their chances by applying to a less popular college but these colleges are more likely to take stronger applicants who applied elsewhere.

Both Oxford and Cambridge publish the stats in full, including numbers applying to a specific college, numbers accepted etc.

sandieshaw · 27/09/2020 19:28

[quote MarchingFrogs]@sandieshaw, I must admit that I thought that you either made an open application, or applied to a single named college, rather than putting down ranked preferences like on a school application CAF? And that whether you were pooled and if you were, to which college would be a decision for the university, not the applicant?

Isn't it odd, though, that for Oxford colleges, highest percentage firsts / 2:1s awarded (and at the top of the Norrington Table, high really is high) = good and to be desired, whereas for any other university (apart from Cambridge, presumably) high percentage of firsts / 2:1s awarded is part of a national scandal, which must be investigated and dealt with?[/quote]
I stand corrected - it’s changed since my day Wink
But I think that although the percentage of firsts at the top colleges is high, overall the percentage is commensurate with other unis.

@beansandsosages - wishing your DS all the best with his application. It’s an amazing experience as well as a first class education.

Witchend · 27/09/2020 20:23

@Naem

btw a fairly lighthearted means of choosing, but DH says that if he had to choose again (he went to Cambridge and Trinity Hall), he would go to the one that was right opposite Sainsburys. Saves a lot of bicycle trips!
Pembroke College in Oxford.

When I was there there was an unofficial prospectus that stated for St Peter's college: "The only thing this college has going for it is that it's the closest college to Sainsbury's".

St Peter's College objected and Pembroke pointed out that wasn't even true-they were. Grin

Witchend · 27/09/2020 20:29

Liddell Building (Christchurch) is even further along Iffley Road

Liddell Building is half Christ Church and half Corpus Christi. I lived there for a year. It is slightly further than St Hilda's but for the other two years I was in college so central Oxford.

Guymere · 27/09/2020 21:46

I’m not sure nearly everyone is interviewed by 3 or 4 colleges at Oxford. Surely only pooled students have more than one interview. I don’t know anyone who had 3 or 4 interviews at different colleges. What proportion have to do this? Surely it’s not nearly everyone or have times changed some dd was interviewed?

Fifthtimelucky · 27/09/2020 22:33

When my daughter applied she was told that everyone would be interviewed by at least two colleges and that some students would be interviewed by more.

I guess the very best and least good candidates only need two interviews because one of the first two colleges will either offer them a place or reject them outright.

But others are not good enough to be snapped up immediately by very oversubscribed colleges, but are nevertheless worthy of a place. My daughter needed four interviews before she could be found a home!

sandybayley · 27/09/2020 22:41

DS1 had 2 interviews at his Oxford college for Chemistry. He had a 3rd interview at another college and was made an offer by the first college.

We think the 3rd interview was a standardisation one.

Also worth noting that it's possible to get reallocated to another college if the number of applicants called to interview is too high. That happened to DS1.

Hence the advice not to get too fixated on college choice. Lots can happen between application and (hopefully!) offer.

orangenasturtium · 27/09/2020 22:41

I forgot that @Witchend! TBF, I lived there the first year it opened so it was a very long time ago Grin

Guymere · 28/09/2020 08:48

The Oxford university web site has a section on interviews. It clearly says you will be interviewed by two tutors from a College. Not several colleges. I think their web site would have been altered if students were to expect more than one interview because it would be wholly misleading if students had to prep for more than one interview routinely. The wording of the whole section clearly doesn’t imply,or remotely suggest, students should be planning for more than one interview.

FrankJ · 28/09/2020 09:18

@Guymere - The Oxford website guidance covers all subjects, and not all subjects guarantee interviews at two colleges, though this is the case for the three subjects maths, computer science and engineering that the original poster's DS is interested in. See

www.maths.ox.ac.uk/study-here/undergraduate-study/interviews

for example for maths. However I guess all that applies in a normal year. It's unclear what will happen this year, and interviews definitely won't be f2f in Oxford.

IrmaFayLear · 28/09/2020 09:27

Ds was interviewed by three colleges.

Of course you must expect as many interviews as it takes! If you are not quite right for college no. 1, but still a competitive candidate, college no. 2 will definitely want to interview you to see if they want you. They are not going to take sight unseen.

I’m not sure what the procedure is this year. Ds, when he went for interviews 4 years ago, stayed from the Tuesday to the Friday.some people went home after one interview (either they were immediately accepted or immediately rejected - you don’t know!) but, as with ds, some people are given a few chances (and still rejected - bad luck, ds).

goodbyestranger · 28/09/2020 09:36

There's a difference between some of the sciences and the rest as far as interviews go. Thus Medicine and a number of other sciences interview at two colleges as standard (the college of choice plus another randomly selected). If the college of choice wants the student, that's where the offer comes. With subjects such as History etc, a student will only interview at the college of choice or allocation or re-allocation unless pooled or for standardization.

goodbyestranger · 28/09/2020 09:40

Also Guymere, surely if a student preps for an interview (I'm not clear what that would involve - perhaps glancing again at books mentioned in the PS?), it's irrelevant how many colleges they interview at?

Bakedpotatoandgin · 28/09/2020 10:11

Oh dear, there is a lot of misinformation on this thread (I'm a current student). The best place to find information is the Oxford admissions pages, as well as the individual college pages and the JCR (student) pages (just search "magdelen college oxford jcr" or similar). A few subjects, not sure which, will have a standardised procedure where candidates are interviewed automatically at multiple colleges, but for most, candidates are offered an interview (which for some subjects will be two or more actual sessions) at one college, with the understanding that they may be sent to another college (s) for further interview(s). Getting sent to another college doesn't necessarily mean that you won't end up at your first choice, though.

In terms of choosing a college, the idea of picking tutors with your interests is generally a fallacy. To begin with, your academic interests aged 17 or 18 are likely to change, or at least substantially develop, over the course of your degree. Secondly, when the courses start to specialise (generally in 2nd year for humanities, final project year for sciences), you get sent to whoever the expert is for that paper (module) for tutorials, whichever college they're at. Thirdly, whatever your interests at 18, the tutors are almost certain to have enough knowledge of it to talk about whatever it is you put on your personal statement - even a specialist in 20th century poetry will know enough about medieval English to teach the first year course. I merrily babbled all sorts of rubbish about what turned out to be tutor's specialism, and still got in.

The Norrington table is also, in my opinion, not something to worry too much about. Yes, they might be able to cherry pick applicants a little more - but if you're suited to Oxford, you'll still get a place even if they have to send you to a different college. Furthermore (and this is my own, admittedly unproven, hypothesis), those at the top of the Norrington table tend to be older, richer, colleges. Maybe they have better teaching, but mostly they have better resources. My own college hovers around the top of the table, and it is also very old and very rich. It has pots of money for all sorts of things, from travel grants to subsidised food in Hall to private therapy to random amounts of Amazon vouchers if you do well in mocks. All this means its students have less non-academic stresses compared to newer, poorer colleges, so will probably do better on exams. (disclaimer - "poorer" is a relative term, resources at pretty much any college are still pretty decent). That's my 2p worth anyway.

Generally, to choose a college, once DC have established it does their subject, the things to think about mostly relate to living environment. Is kitchen access important to them? Do they want to live in college accommodation for the whole degree? Do they like the look of big grounds, or modern buildings, or pretty little medieval quads? If real life open days are a thing again before your DC apply, I'd really recommend making a shortlist from the websites and going to see as many as possible. My own college just felt comfortable when I visited. Wherever you end up though, most people think their college is the best even if they didn't apply there.

FrankJ · 28/09/2020 10:47

@Bakedpotatoandgin These three subjects do have (for shortlisted applicants coming to Oxford in a normal year) automatic interviews at two colleges

goodbyestranger · 28/09/2020 10:50

Oh dear, there is a lot of misinformation on this thread

Well it's not all bad Bakedpotatoandgin. The info in my post was entirely correct :)

spagbog5 · 28/09/2020 10:55

Dd1 did Ppe at Balliol.
It's a great central college right in the heart of Oxford.
Whoever said you get interviewed by many colleges is wrong- that is only if you are pooled , DD was only interviewed at Balliol but by god was it brutal.DD called me in tears convinced she would be sent home early in the interview process as they were so vile to her but she got in to her applied college. It is a very hard process so warn your son !

FrankJ · 28/09/2020 11:27

@Spagbog5 The three subjects the OP's DS is interested in (maths, CS, engineering) do have (for shortlisted applicants coming to Oxford in a normal year) automatic interviews at two colleges. Not all subjects run the same processes

IrmaFayLear · 28/09/2020 11:51

Why am I wrong?! Ds got interviewed by three colleges. Fact. In his feedback it said that his test score was very high but in interviews he struggled. I think they were really trying to find a spot for him, but he blew it...

I think you can go too far in choosing just the right college: a lot of people are offered a place elsewhere. I remember a thread where someone’s dc wanted to turn down their place because they had an offer from a newer and ugly college instead of old and beautiful one. If a parent has any role it is to drum into dc beforehand that an offer is a Big Win, no matter which college gives it.