Oxbridge Aspirants 2021 - New Thread (2)

[Baaaahhhhh]

Sorry posted last message on the last thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/3757768-Oxbridge-Aspirants-Sep-2021

Here is the new one......

@IrmaFayLear

So what do they take notice of?

If they don’t take into account GCSE grades (people are exhorted by admissions to “go for it” when they have crappy grades), teachers’ references, personal statement... that leaves the entrance exam if there is one for that subject and interview. I thought it was supposed to be holistic.

I think they take all of these factors into account - eg. relatively weak or 'asymmetric ' GCSEs may be outweighed by the other factors

Re interviews , all 5 of DDs choices interviewed (the other 4 being for EEE) but as SandyBayley noted, the others were more of a selling exercise. I'd guess weaker candidates may get a harder time but if they see someone with good predicted grades and enthusiasm for the subject they're going to be in 'pick me' mode.

@seedybird - I'm sure it varies by course and by candidate.

DS1 felt he'd been put through the mill in his 3 Chemistry interviews at Oxford. The overnight stays and the waiting around for a possible interview at another college (which he got) was stressful.

His Imperial interview was very straightforward - minimum stress and probably made easier that we are London based. Manchester was frustrating, travel required and no rigour and felt like they would have made him an offer anyway.

My two science DSs were the only ones with interviews other than at Oxford and both would agree that they were nothing like Oxford - qualitatively completely different (Imperial, Manchester, Birmingham).

DS’ teacher also told them that predicted grades don’t really matter - as long as they meet the standard offer threshold. So, at Cambridge, AAA for humanities and AAA for sciences, but the advantage of having three A is apparently neither here nor there because they know predictions vary between schools / teachers.

Can this be right?

For DS’ course there is no admissions test. They do interview almost all of them though, I think. However, there are two colleges that need 2 essays submitted; about 6 or 7 others that require 1 essay and the majority require none. Some colleges ask you to read something before the interview and respond to it. Others use objects, etc in the interview to initiate discussion. Some focus more in the PS / submitted work. Some have 2 interviews; others one. Most require you to have the subject as an A-level, but not all of them. So very variable. This year, it will all be online as well, so it’s a minefield! I wonder how the colleges that need you to read something in the half hour beforehand will organise that?

I don't see that releasing an extract half an hour before each individual's interview slot is a particular problem.

At Oxford, where aptitude tests are relevant, they're of real importance. As are GCSE grades. Predicted grades aren't, provided they hit the standard offer. Going down the line, the school reference is more important than the personal statement, which is not much more than useful (sometimes, depending on format) as an interview ice breaker or very occasionally to flag up a quite exceptional student (although inevitably the content would require testing at interview to establish credibility).

I’m surprised predicted grades don’t matter more. I know they’re dependent on teacher personality / optimism to a large extent, but still....

Do GCSEs count much at Cambridge?

Cambridge has historically been much more set on A level performance than GCSE. Hence its extreme crossness about the de facto abolition of the AS qualification, which was a good indicator of subsequent performance.

@goodbyestranger

Cambridge has historically been much more set on A level performance than GCSE. Hence its extreme crossness about the de facto abolition of the AS qualification, which was a good indicator of subsequent performance.

An hence them introducing their own aptitude tests, for some subjects anyway.

Hence them having to follow Oxford's lead, which they did reluctantly, having written to dozens of influential Headteachers to try to garner support for retaining AS levels, but not getting that support. Cambridge still seems much more stuck on A level grades than their own aptitude tests.

Interestingly Ds’ school was very clear at the time of predicted grades that pupils shouldn’t come and ask for them to be bumped up because some universities keep a record of each schools predictions v actual results for previous candidates And they needed “top” universities which received bundles of a* predictions to know that theirs were accurate and could be relied on. Whether this was a ruse used by the school to stop students/parents harassing them for higher grades I don’t know, but considering the amount of data Oxford seem to collate about each candidate it seems possible they might look at a schools track record in terms of predictions.

DD is applying for Oxford from a state comprehensive, and I’m interested to hear about the role of the ‘Oxbridge mentor’ in other schools. Someone up-thread said that their main role in their private school was to prevent ‘clashes’ - two students from the same school applying to the same college, but surely they also provide detailed guidance on writing the personal statement, preparing for admissions tests, arranging mock interviews, etc? The Oxbridge mentor in dd’s school is a subject teacher who is really busy helping her students catch up on after lockdown, but she is offering a couple of lunchtime sessions for students who might apply to Oxbridge. I don’t think the school will have the time or resources to offer more than some general guidance though, definitely no help on preparing for admission tests or interviews, apart from very broad advice. Anyone else’s dc in a similar position?

DS from a state school starts at Oxford in a couple of weeks . His school had an Oxbridge Coordinator who was a form tutor who basically offered a few lunchtime sessions to keep the dc on track with applications and made sure they understood the requirements for admissions tests. For DS subject the admissions tests going back 10 years were all online so he just ploughed ahead and did them. He didn't really have a mock interview, just some advice about generally how to conduct himself socially. Given that the interviews are all academic I imagine that making sure DC applying know their subject inside out is the most important thing! DS said that in all 4 interviews, he was only asked one question that was not directly related to his subject.

@NiamCinnOir my daughter was in a similar position last year. She got a few emails about the application process /personal statement from a previous year 13, but that's about it when it comes to mentoring.
When it came to the interview stage, she had previous interviews at Lancaster and York (end october/mid november) so got a bit of experience from that before she had her interview at Jesus College Oxford in the December. 6 students applied last year to Oxford, and 1 for Cambridge. none got through from Oxford, and 1 from Cambridge made it.

Her interview, she spent too long on one maths question, that's what did it on the feedback she got from Oxford. (she accepted Lancaster)

Did anyone who participated in the recent open days get an idea of how the virtual interviews will be conducted? Not necessarily the nuts and bolts zoom stuff, but if, for example, a strong candidate might be "sent" for interview elsewhere.....will that even happen this year?

Interesting about Imperial now doing interviews, DD1 didn't have one, but that was 6 years ago.

The role of the Oxbridge mentor at our school -

1. There was a talk back in about Feb which was all very blunt and quite doom and gloom and seemed basically designed to put people off if they had any delusions about the process - ie, if you’re not going to do super- curricular / essay competitions / extensive reading around the subject, don’t waste our time. Similarly, if you’re not going to spend half-term preparing for entrance exams, don’t waste our time and if you don’t have at least two A* predictions - well don’t bother. That was the general gist. To ram the point home, they brought back students who had eventually got in, but not in straightforward ways, to talk about the “journey” - which sounded quite traumatic in some instances.

So, that probably put off at least half of the prospective entrants. DS left that meeting saying he doesn’t feel he has what it takes to apply.

He changed his mind when he saw that other unis such as Durham, UCL etc ask for the same grades anyway. Also there’s not the hurdle of admissions tests for his subject do that’s a non-issue. He’s not overly phased by competitive interviews as most of the kids round here do at least 5 at various schools (sometimes all day long) just to get a place at a school at 11 plus

I think they were given a sheet with some tips about how to write an Oxbridge PS. He gave his to his subject teacher in the first week back and got about 3 comments for changes which he made. The Oxbridge advisor role is not to read / give feedback on PS as he’s not an expert in all subject fields (I think he’s a Physics teacher) and he would have to read maybe 100.

They asked them all to give 3 college choices. We had an email to say there was a clash, He recommended our second choice as he said this has a higher acceptance rate for independent school applicants. Maybe it does, but we decided that what happens at a college level can be quite different to what happens in a subject level. So have decided to go for another college now.

That’s the only advice. DH went to uni in the UK and I came to the UK to study and we have MAs / MSc, but we were first-generation uni-goers and no family history of further education, let alone Oxbridge.

I think schools where they give a lot of help are the exception, rather than the rule. In fact, bad help is worse than no help, eg mock interviews where a teacher asks nice questions about your Duke of Edinburgh award or grade 8 euphonium instead of nasty questions about the subject you wish to study.

Baaaahhhhh it's not a new thing at Imperial. Some subjects do, some don't.

Thanks everyone for your comments about the role of Oxbridge mentors at your dcs’ schools. Sounds like the ‘help’ is fairly patchy at best, which is strangely encouraging! Oxbridge application does feel like a complete stab in the dark to be honest, and I can really relate to @Tenpastseven’s comment about not being able to make sense of the college admissions stats, even if I knew where to find them. DD has chosen her college based on location and grounds mainly, so it was good to see that other dc have taken a similar approach. I chose my university in the 1980s on the basis of a couple of photos in the prospectus, and didn’t have the chance to visit it before I started, and all worked out fine for me, as I have told DD quite a few times now

@HuaShan and @sammyjoanne, glad to hear how things worked out for your dc last year, and good luck to them both for their first terms!

@quest1on - interesting that your dc’s cohort was effectively scared off applying quite early on. Quite refreshing that some schools are prepared to be brutally frank about the chances of getting a place, I think. Also means that those who do decide to apply are realistic about the process, and the degree of stamina needed.

For those who want to apply and have the predicted grades, good luck and have a bash whatever the school says or thinks. I don’t think it is worth agonising over which college might offer the best chances whereas subject choice has more variation eg joint honours statistically is a bummer - but some people get in so worth it if it’s what you want. I see the news stories on more state school pupils but it just seems to me like there is new cohort of state “super schools” that dominate rather than a real broadening of opportunity for the majority of schools. It is a bit depressing that Oxbridge is still so built up as the pinnacle of achievement when there are other excellent universities, some of which offer things you won’t get at either Oxford or Cambridge eg study abroad, flexibility of courses. Fact of life that when you apply for any top university it is very oversubscribed and success will turn on the smallest of things. It’s a curse of the Oxbridge admissions system that in an effort to try and differentiate candidates the process becomes so much more personal for the candidates. I hope that all applicants get into the universities that their likely top grades deserve in which case I would definitely reassure them that Oxbridge or not does not determine your future path.

Wise words, @Dustylaw, thank you - good to frame the Oxbridge application process in the context of other excellent universities, which may well suit some applicants much more. DD is going to 'have a bash' at Oxford but try not to give her heart and soul to the process.

Great post Dusty - Thankyou!

I also feel strangely reassured by the patchy input to the Oxbridge application process @NiamCinnOir.

There doesn't seem to be an 'Oxbridge' person at all at DS's school but that said, his form teacher and subjects teachers have all looked at Personal Statement and given useful feedback. Internal deadline was today so it's gone in now. I personally feel relieved.

He can focus on the bazillion assessments they seem to have hastily arranged at school, no doubt fearful that this will be their last opportunity to collate evidence for CAGS!

DS is honing his PS at the moment. Hopefully, he should get some feedback today. We have taken the view that a well written Oxbridge PS will work for other unis too. The only frustration is that the course name at other unis is different so we had to say “this course” not the course name.
Next to think about colleges. He is sporty so that will be a factor. He just needs to check which college a classmate is thinking of to avoid a clash.
Mind you we still don’t have his predicted grades confirmed so we don’t know for certain if he will go for it.