Guardian Uni League Table - some big jumps here!

[DewdropSnowdrop]

www.theguardian.com/education/ng-interactive/2020/sep/05/the-best-uk-universities-2021-league-table

Apologies for not being able to do a click Link. I will learn one day.

There are some big jumps and falls in the last 12 months.

What do we all think?

It's rubbish. Looked at the vet table and RVC is bottom even though it's renowned as one of the top vet schools in the world. And consistently comes top of all other tables - Glasgow beat it this year I think. Not sure what data the Guardian have used ?

It’s not even accurate. For the course I teach on it says the student to staff ratio is 1:14. It’s 1:23 and has been for over 2 years! One of the worst in the country if not the worst.

It's all irrelevant for anyone planning uni applications.

Outcomes will be determined purely how universities adapt to covid, and nobody can predict that. The exceptions are the ingrained elitist nepotism that surrounds particular institutions that gives their graduates an edge regardless of their actual outcomes.

I'm baffled by it. Where did they get their info from?
There's never usually this much movement.

Comedy value. In physics ICL and Bristol are not ranked as highly as Nottigham Trent or Northumbria.

These things are there to sell papers so ignore or take with huge dose of salt.

And perhaps the Guardian has a social agenda? I guess sneaking ex polys above oxbridge would be laughed at but they have done it elsewhere . .

It’s a load of rubbish. The data they’ve supposedly taken from the NSS for my department is incorrect. And, yes, there is a social agenda, more so with this league table than any other.

History better at Suffolk than Cambridge....who would have knew?

Kids you know what to put down on your UCAS form

It doesn't use research metrics which is why it jumps about from year to year. It also uses a different set of NSS metrics to the others. Staff/student ratio isn't just academic staff, and the split of time research active staff spend on teaching/research is different from one place to another which isn't accounted for.

Yes for ds subject it goes Oxford, Durham, St Andrews, Cambridge. Bolton ! I’m sorry but Bolton May be very good but above York, Bristol, Birmingham etc I don’t think so .

But there is also a serious point that far from levelling the playing field it does the reverse .

Someone with no previous experience of the sector will take this stuff at face value. I have colleagues with very bright children who have chosen the local university because a ‘degree is a degree’ and ‘they were so friendly’ and x ‘didn’t want to leave home and give up their job at the local supermarket’ and now they have graduated in law with a first from a small town ex teacher training college now university and are baffled that they can’t get a training contract with a decent firm. When others with lower A level grades who went to ‘better’Universities ( code for establishment ) can .

When I looked at the data loads was missing at many Unis. So Notts Medicine has only 3 categories filled in whereas Oxford has all of them. As it's a % that makes quite a difference 😂. What a v weird table.

It's so funny! In DD's subject, her uni has gone down to 3rd place from top and the second placed one has gone up from 19.

My goodness - looking Chemistry and Physics makes very interesting reading.

What I am confused about, is how can some universities be ranked, when 4 out of the 9 criteria says "n/a" for them?

I take it all with a pinch of salt but it's amusing on a quiet Saturday afternoon

That’s a cracking list! Bonkers! How is it measured - comfort of seats, queue length at student union, window:student ratio, average beard length of lecturers?
I don’t wish to be rude (well, maybe a bit) but some of these places featuring highly are basically unknown and would be a waste of money for someone with decent grades. I hope no one goes there by mistake!

Does everyone ignore this one and look at Sunday Times list or is that just as crackers?

Peaseblossom22

Exactly.

If students at 17 with a limited higher education perspective take this random list generator..sorry league table..at face value then they may be under the illusion some institutions are regarded a lot more highly than they are.

This does a disservice to the students and will reduce aspiration as some low tariff institutions are ranked relatively highly.

In an alternative universe where such a table was taken seriously then I would be peed off that the oxbridge insurance university (where I went) is something like 30 in this table.

A few history academics may be pleased at surpassing Cambridge in a league table lol

Theradoisin ..the problem with lists like this is that it may undermine league tables in general.

RG group universities (or post 92) will need to keep this brand to prevent status being undermined with distorted tables as in the guardian.

Looking at this table if taken seriously (not likely) it also promotes an 'oxbridge or bust' mentality where high achieving pupils feel it is either getting through the hunger games of oxbridge entrance interviews or settling for one of a plethora of similar institutions.

Pease is right. Those in the know from backgrounds of university going back a few generations can ignore it and realise it would be unwise to base choices on it but those without that knowledge will think the high ranking ex poly is the best thing for their child (and only realise later it was a mistake).

I saw an argument the other day that recruiting based on brains was wrong and elitist. I hope we don't go down that route. I am not sure I would want to be operated on by a surgeon with a very low IQ who does not know how to cut me up.

The Graun table has always had its numerous oddities; however it seems to have taken things to another level, or rather plumbed new depths, with this year's release.

DH and I were having a chuckle about it.
But it partly depends what you want from uni, a highly vocational course with a good chance of a specific career afterwards or a more general and academic experience?
How do you rate one against the other?
What does student satisfaction actually mean and how realistic were their expectations in the first place?
I wouldn't recommend that dc base their Uni choice on this list.

@Sittin

That’s a cracking list! Bonkers! How is it measured - comfort of seats, queue length at student union, window:student ratio, average beard length of lecturers? I don’t wish to be rude (well, maybe a bit) but some of these places featuring highly are basically unknown and would be a waste of money for someone with decent grades. I hope no one goes there by mistake!

Well yes - all three league tables do. They all use NSS as a dominant metric and often students rank comfy chairs and easy course work higher than challenging course work and in depth discussions....

What lists tell the true picture. Not from this country so wouldn't know where to look.

@Theradioison

Does everyone ignore this one and look at Sunday Times list or is that just as crackers?

When we were assessing unis for DD, we found the Sunday times one seemed pretty solid, and also the QS rankings. (You can filter to just see U.K. ). The guardian ratings were read for comedy value only.

It relies very heavily on student satisfaction. As a result London Universities do badly. And perhaps Universities with high proportions of overseas students, or other specific student demographics, do badly.

Student satisfaction is an odd one. I am convinced that Bournemouth U bobs up and down depending on how much beach weather they had that summer.

Also what you think when you graduate may be very different to what you think ten years later. That degree from Imperial may well have opened a lot more door than Nottingham Trent. Even though it was very hard demanding and so not as much fun at the time.

LSE has shot up. For a long time it was a matter of pride amongst students that they came bottom of student satisfaction tables, and so they filled out questionnaires to ensure that happened. Proved how tough they were to stick it out. Perhaps league tables like this have the advantage of encouraging Universities to think more about the overall student experience.

Student satisfaction is an odd one. I am convinced that Bournemouth U bobs up and down depending on how much beach weather they had that summer.

and it may also be a metric of how easily satisfied students are.