University 2020 :7: Results tombola, roll up, roll up, pick a prize!

[MillicentMartha]

Well, it’s been a crazy few days.

Old thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/3962422-University-2020-6-The-one-with-the-results-at-the-end?watched=1&msgid=99082625#99082625

Personally i would appeal if you have grounds. So if mocks are higher then I'd say go for it! A level results do still matter and even if they got into Uni with the grades they were given the A level results will stay with them. We were lucky and got all the CAG, no downgrades then managed to go through Adjustment as he exceeded his first place offer. He's one who was a late bloomer and luckily started to work just in time and has exceeded his predictions since Christmas!

Good luck to everyone who has been downgraded, there are some heartbreaking stories out there. I'm keeping everything crossed for you and hoping that the DCs are OK.

@Snozzlemaid

Whether anyone on here agrees or not Dd is appealing her B in Chemistry. Its not affected her uni place but her CAG was A. She got 9 at GCSE and A at AS last year. Her college have agreed she should appeal as their Chemistry results have all been downgraded because of last years' results. This is a new college who only have one previous year of A level results so if they didn't perform well last year this year have been affected.

Similar to DS. They didn’t do mocks, but did do AS (got an A). Am not sure if they’ll be able to use that as an appeal (we aren’t in Wales where I believe they’ve said you can).

Having an AS level is surely the best evidence. Can’t see how they can justify a down grade with a good AS level!

@Newgirls

Having an AS level is surely the best evidence. Can’t see how they can justify a down grade with a good AS level!

I just don’t know-nothing seems be be very logical at the moment!

I wonder if they’d say only mocks sat in the spring term count as valid ones and that an AS is too long ago. But then if they’re using them for Welsh students, that is not fair!

I've just found out DD's CAGs and she has gone down one grade in two A levels. If they were awarded in accordance with the CAGs, she would get her preferred choice of uni. I still think it would be unfair as she is only getting those CAGs because of a high achieving year in those subjects.

I'm normally so so slow to anger, but I'm struggling to keep a lid on it at the moment!

Let’s eat - yes long ago, giving the student even more time to get better from a strong base.

@PavlovianPooch - it's the results awarded which are related to the previous years' results, not the CAGs. The CAGs should be her teachers' best estimate of what she would have achieved IF exams had gone ahead as normal.
Did she have mock results which would allow her to get her first choice uni? If so, the school should be appealing for her once Ofqual defines what it considers a 'valid mock'.

@PavlovianPooch

I've just found out DD's CAGs and she has gone down one grade in two A levels. If they were awarded in accordance with the CAGs, she would get her preferred choice of uni. I still think it would be unfair as she is only getting those CAGs because of a high achieving year in those subjects.

I'm normally so so slow to anger, but I'm struggling to keep a lid on it at the moment!

Same here

Sost in my world we tend to ignore degree courses as they are pretty much of a muchness. We don't distinguish between a 1st or 2:1, Durham, Southampton or UCL, maths or history. However A level grades are a very good indicator of how well someone will perform under pressure in their professional exams where they may study for 3 or 4 weeks before taking an exam. A masters or PhD before graduate entry tends to indicate that the applicant has been avoiding the world of work!

Your DGD is hoping for a future in a research based environment, but A level grades may be very important for those looking to start work in just 3 years time as the UK is (hopefully) coming out of recession.

I have one DS who has just got a place on a FTSE graduate scheme. (its not all doom and gloom!). Definitely if you think you have been robbed and have plenty of evidence appeal but in every year there are people who dont do as well as they would like.

A Levels are extremely important for your CV. My son was asked for them on every gradauate scheme he applied to.

I have been following this thread and some other threads with interest though and I better just say I have a younger DS who got his results yesterday too.

In all years there are always people who feel somehow its unfair for THEM, either hard questions, not feeling well, even bad hay fever stopped them concentrating. I honestly think this is the best we can expect. Its hard for everyone this year. I have seen some on MN's claim its not fair because
a. Their child is a fly by the seat of your pants, leave it to the last moment etc and they were just about to properly revise. Well - what a lesson to learn. Also there are their GCSE's, mocks, reports that can be used but a PP said that their school had thrown them away which I find very hard to believe.

b. Their child didnt take the mocks seriously and now they cannot prove that they are worthy of a higher grade. They have have been 'robbed'. I beg to differ on that one.
c. They are in a deprived area and although their school has little history of good results it was going to be different for them.

My son's school during lockdown had endless Zoom lessons, and also got the boys to undertake internal assessments. They were clearly looking ahead to ensure that they had every scrap of evidence should that be required.

My niece's school and some friends schools did very very little and it was 'see you in Sept' and although links to websites were sent through there was no follow up and the homework set is still unmarked.

I heard Angela Rayner on Breakfast TV this morning and she sounded like the worst of the left wing. Wanted the teachers grades to stand and wouldnt address the problems that would give to universities as all grades had gone up potenitally 12% an unheard of increase year on year. She said there was bias in the exam system anyway so why not give the kids the higher grades.

So effectively this way of doing things isnt necessarily going to satisfy everyone, there are individual stories and circumstances for us all and no system is going to be able to make everyone happy.

I do however agree that the moderators SHOULD have stepped in where schools were clearly inputting fantasy grades.

If my son was appealing (and he doesnt need to thank goodness) and I really thought he deserved better I would get every scrap of evidence I could and put together a case along with his teachers to get the results overturned but sadly I think some dont want to put the effort in, they just want it to happen

@sunglasses123 I am not quite sure what you are trying to say. I agree that people get disappointments every year, every year subjective marking means that thousands of students get different grades from those a senior examiner would've given, we were very frustrated that OFQUAL decided to cut the number of As for Physics, so DS got an A for 86%, which would have been an A in any other year. But at least he could see that the actual mark was mostly reasonable and it was only 1 grade out from where he hoped to be. His GF got very disappointing results because the exams went badly for her. But at least the grades related to the work she had done.

This year is different and there are TRULY random results out there - as I posted above, a friend of DS1 who got A in all but one test and assignments at school and was given a D yesterday which was plain wrong. It was not even because the school had weak results in that subject, as 56% got A/A* last year and 40% in 2017, I could not find the 2018 data. Other people have posted stories of students getting lower grades in high achieving schools due to an anonymous algorithm which is blind to the actual work of all students.

Sunglasses - was your son at a private school by any chance, as they appear to have done much better out of this? Very easy to suggest in a round about way that other parents are simply whinging without just cause when your child has not suffered as a result of a flawed logarithm.

Okay, Divoc, I understand what you are saying. But she would have her grades if those estimates were used. She was working ridiculously hard prior to lock down.

Unfortunately, as it stands at the moment, we have no grounds for appeal, but we think the school might be planning something as their results have been hammered so hard.

Sunglasses' son went to a very well known boarding school. We know this because she is apparently unable to write 'boarding school' without the extra detail about its status in every post she makes about it

Aaaahhhh yes, but he deserves those grades don't you know.

The rest of us can eat cake.

@myrtleWilson

Sunglasses' son went to a very well known boarding school. We know this because she is apparently unable to write 'boarding school' without the extra detail about its status in every post she makes about it

That would explain the many posts saying exactly the Same thing

I think sunglasses does make some valid points around results. Let’s face it, we all know those (in previous years) who were predicted high and then had a howler of an exam.

However, I don’t like the bit about the zoom classes and all the evidence gathering in lockdown. That to me is unfair and penalises those at schools who didn’t do that (state schools in other words). Quite arrogant comments in my view. And I say that as someone whose kids go to a private school and had zoom lessons!

It saddens me that bright kids (and average ones too!) in lower achieving schools are penalised. I think that’s shit quite frankly. And anyone who disagrees is not a decent person.

Am not sure - I think Sunglasses either doesn't understand or chooses not to acknowledge how the application of the algorithm (and its non application to certain cohorts) has had an unequal and unjustified impact of individual's awarded grades

My son's school during lockdown had endless Zoom lessons, and also got the boys to undertake internal assessments. They were clearly looking ahead to ensure that they had every scrap of evidence should that be required.

And the schools have been told that cannot use anything after 20th March (ie lockdown) as evidence, so if your school is then they are cheating.

A very helpful poster shared this analysis from the ONS. Worth reposting as some appear to have missed the fact that not all settings have been treated equally by the algorithm. This is due to the fact that cags were accepted for small subject cohorts - as more commonly found in independent schools. Compare the upgrade for candidates in independent schools (prestigious and otherwise) with those attending state FE and sixth form colleges.
Repor in TES and elsewhere says ofqual were aware of this anomaly prior to results being published but chose not to adjust accordingly.

I am not sure why any school was asked to grade its pupils this year. It looks to me like a rank order for each subject would have been sufficient and the algorithm would have spat out a grade. What was the point of CAGs?

I know a school where most years around 8 students get A for Chemistry. This was a strong cohort so the teachers CAGs put 11 A. However the algorithm awarded only 2 A* the rest her downgraded to A (one went down to a B), all A grades went to Bs etc. Why get teachers to grade when the algorithm solely works with the rank order?

Another question, did any pupil go through adjustment this year to get a place at university?

@Gymntonic, yes if you are taking Greek, Geology, Classics etc in a small class at an independent you would be given your CAGs, so A stars all around!

I'm not bitter!!

Their child is a fly by the seat of your pants, leave it to the last moment etc and they were just about to properly revise. Well - what a lesson to learn.

Ah yes, they should have abandoned their usual way of working, the way that suits them best, just in case an unprecedented pandemic arrived and exams were cancelled. What a load of bollocks. Many people do best by revising hard for a short period rather than over a long period and that is a perfectly valid way of doing it. Your "haha that'll learn em" tone is distasteful too. You seem to be suggesting that someone who was just getting into revision deserves to lose their university place. You also seem to suggest that it's not possible for someone to do well at a school without a good track record - not even sure where to begin with that one

Here's a simple bar chart for anyone struggling to understand.
And as our A level system is predominantly final exam only, leaving it to the last minute is absolutely fine and within the rules...and should not be penalised. And I'm pretty sure us just as likely to apply to pupils in every type of setting.

And the schools have been told that cannot use anything after 20th March (ie lockdown) as evidence, so if your school is then they are cheating.

@Witchend - they were not told that. The guidance to schools was that they should be careful in giving weight to evidence gathered after that date. Nothing wrong with teachers using professional judgement with all the information available to them.

I'm not keen on sunglasses123 tone either, but please let's not make this become an "us against them", State vs. Private thread .

This has been such a supportive thread up until now, and there are many young students from both the state and the independent sectors who have had their lives turned upside down by this. They didn't design the system or ask to be graded this way.
It's an Ofqual/Government mess which they should sort out.

The Class of 2020 have basically had a shit last three years of education - guinea pigs for new GCSE grades/ loss of AS levels and now an abrupt end to their school careers and this results fiasco!

I think we should try to support ALL the young people in this cohort - celebrating and valuing their work and success as well as supporting them in campaigning for just and fair grades.