Has you DC got their student house deposit back yet?

[Divoc2020]

DS's tenancy ended at the end of June and hadn't heard anything about his deposit, so I told him to he emailed the agents today to ask.
They tried to fob him off, saying they would let him know within 6 weeks of the end of the tenancy.
I had a feeling this wasn't right, so we looked up the details of the scheme his deposit was registered with and found the form which officially requests the return of the deposit, and gives landlords/agents just 10 days to respond with any proposed deductions.

Strangely, he's just had an email at 5.30 pm confirming that he would be getting it all back (no deductions) within the next 7 days. Hurrah!

There is no incentive for agencies to pay it back before they have to, and in some cases the money is earning interest for them.

Also, if the tenant wants to challenge any deductions they have to do it within 3 months of the end of the tenancy.

So it's worth giving your DCs a nudge to chase it up!

Yes. dd had a cheque within a week of moving out.
Bit of a pain that it is a cheque as there is no branch of that bank local to our home, but she can't fault her land lady who has been totally fair with them throughout the last 2 years.

I have to say, it is nice to know there are a few student landlords out there who don't try to take advantage of / cheat the young people who rent from them

This seems to be a thing with agencies. They hope students have scattered to the four winds and that no one co-ordinates the return. I have also seen the same with posh London agencies renting to expats. The employer probably paid initially, and the tenant is long gone.

Another thing that happens is a deduction of about £50 per person for "cleaning" in the hope no one objects. It adds up to a tidy income if there are several eight bedroom houses.

Its actually quite simple. The landlord/agency must give a list of proposed deductions with evidence within 10 days of the end of the lease. If a student reminds them of this duty and threatens to otherwise go back to the deposit holder directly (and by law the deposit must be in a registered scheme) they will probably cave. The process is very bureaucratic, especially for landlords who have to prove deductions are warranted. It is even worth disputing a proposed cleaning bill if you are sure that the landlord/agency will not have receipts to back this up.

With the first flat DD and her flatmate cleaned it thoroughly, far better than it had been initially. Great for the landlord as he was able to get far more rent from incoming tenants. The agent was slow, but at DDs request the landlord stepped in and demanded the agent returned their deposit immediately and in full. At the latest flat the landlord did not employ an agency and was seriously incompetent/mean. DD writing asking for her share of the deposit back in very clear terms and threatening to go to the deposit holder (and also suggesting she might raise the several instances of him failing to carry out basic maintenance etc) has just worked. The others are staying on so I assume he thought he could just leave the whole deposit where it was.

If a student does end up having to go back to the deposit holder it can take months. However there is a presumption that the tenant is right unless the landlord proves otherwise, so assuming they have not done a lot of damage, they will probably win. "Wear and tear" provisions are quite generous, so even if there is damage, say to anything other than new paintwork or to a new carpet, they can't be charged that much.

One of my twins got his back (Bristol). No one else was bothering in the house so he did it all and chased it and got it all back and then sent the money to the others although one boy despite four reminders has still not given him the bank details to which to send his share. Other son (Bristol too) has not had his yet but they are chasing the agency - that tenancy only ended about 2 July however.

Time for the second twin to get writing! A short email reminding the agency that they have to either provide a list of proposed deductions (costed) within 10 days or return the deposit in full. If he does not hear within 48 hours he will approach the deposit holder.

DD also added an amount she was prepared to pay as a reasonable settlement. She probably would have got more if it had gone to arbitration. Worked like a dream and a reply within an hour. Truth is that the tenant only really has to open the dispute. The landlord then has to do all the work in terms of justifying any deductions. It is very time consuming so unless the place has been trashed, few landlords will bother.

Xenia - yes, I was quite shocked by the lackadaisical attitude of DS's flatmates - none of them had even thought to ask about the deposit, or even noticed they hadn't had it back!

DS doesn't like doing this stuff - he is too trusting and hasn't quite got the hang of managing admin like this. He was just saying "can't we wait the 6 weeks to see if it comes back first?" and then when he got the email back the same day I think the penny dropped.

Can I ask if any of your dc have tried to sign on ?

dd has tried to get work throughout the pandemic and not managed it, but, and, unfortunately, does not have a long term / career job. So, once term ended on 30th June, she tried to claim Job Seekers Allowance and was told she isn't entitled.
Just wondering if anyone else has tried to claim ?
Also, what she is supposed to live on if it isn't a mistake.

Another chore easily missed is giving proper notice on the broadband, and then returning the router and other kit. For Virgin you need a special bag, which DD had to ask for several times. If you don't, they charge an awful lot.

On new tenancies don't forget to apply on line for Council tax exemption. Easiest if you collect everyone's date of birth and do it all in one go, as some students don't do admin at all. DD knew people who were taken to court for non payment of Council tax because they had not applied by the deadline. I am a landlord and probably about 50% of tenants are from overseas, so I am used to helping with initial admin. So when DD started second year I went down at the start of the tenancy, helped clean the flat, helped her annotate the inventory, and helped her set up utilities using internet comparator sites. This paid dividends, not just in saving real amounts of money, but has meant that since then DD has been pretty organised. (Studying medicine means early contact with NHS bureaucracy.)

some students don't do admin at all

Yes, they really don't do they? I've been shocked to discover this too! How do they think they will ever get a job, sort out taxes etc without developing these skills?

They other thing that bugs me about this generation is that they will NOT make quick phone calls/ SPEAK to someone to sort things out - it's all about hiding behind emails/texts, which can end up taking days...

Grr....

Good points from Need. The landlord sent the router home with my son - just as well I turned up with the volvo estate with seats down as I have never had such a packed car when we cleared the house. It is now in my garage. We will certainly return it if needed.

My older son when he moved last year was not charged by Virgin his broadband provider when he left because we sent back the router - I sent part back having got an extra bag by post and the tenants at his house kindly returned the other part by post to Virgin. I cannot remember why we ended up with part of it at my house and part there. i think we left them a still connected router and BB for another month so they were not left with none from day 1 and we took away some TV thing that also came with it which my son had had from Virgin.

Back..., mine have not signed on but it is certainly some shoujld loko into given lack of jobs at present.

I am not suggesting my twins are ahead of the curve on admin - in years 1 - 2 I know one left it so keen others to fix up the tenancies. It is just this year that he has got on with it. He has now sent the boy his share by paypal as no bank details were handed over as he wanted to get it done and hand it all back. He says he is nothing like I am but I suppose we cannot avoid ultimately becoming our parents in some ways and if that means he is good at admin and getting things done then that's fine by me.

So, has everyone else's dc have either got a job or a place to do further study ?

We arranged a solicitors letter with the other parents. It’s an absolute disgrace that so many students lose their deposits automatically.

They’d left it nigh on spotless with photos to prove it was cleaner when they moved out than when they moved in but were still told the deposit was for a deep clean and gardening. It wasn’t a tiny amount when all their deposits were added together - a total of over £3, 000.

Students are fleeced.

Ours has job with one of the big four on grad programme but the start has now been deferred until late January /early February.

She’s accepted another locally based graduate role in executive search to tide her over and starts in a fortnight. She’s disappointed not to be moving to London just yet, but knows she won’t be stuck at home for too long.

My twins start 2 years of post graduate law studies in September (the law conversion course/GDL) so further studies. One had been going to travel on a gap year abroad with his friends but they had to cancel that due to the pandemic. He is sharing a house with one of those and that person is doing a masters instead of the gap year.

My twins have always got most of their deposits back in Bristol on the 4 properties over 2 years so not as bad as some.

DS has a one year placement with a big tech company, starting September. It's starting remotely, but they're hoping to get them into the (very swish!) offices at some point.
He just got all the joining information/ invitations to some online 'get to know you' sessions - he's quite excited now he knows it's definitely happening.

@CherryPavlova

We arranged a solicitors letter with the other parents. It’s an absolute disgrace that so many students lose their deposits automatically.

They’d left it nigh on spotless with photos to prove it was cleaner when they moved out than when they moved in but were still told the deposit was for a deep clean and gardening. It wasn’t a tiny amount when all their deposits were added together - a total of over £3, 000.

Students are fleeced.

Couldn't agree more. I think the agents plan for a significant % of students to just accept the deductions because:

• they're disorganised at admin
• it's often the first time they've been in any sort of legal contract and they don't understand their rights/ the law
• there are often groups of students per house, with no single one 'leading' and taking charge of the issue
• many students just disappear off - on holiday, into jobs etc and forget to follow up

It's shocking really.

DS1 has never had to pay a deposit, private rental but through the uni agency, do no issues there.

DD's has taken a while from the end of April. They also initially kept £50 per person until they were abe to check the condition, but have since said all was good. DD was the lead tenant so they kep the £50 pp all from hers!

My DD had a message last week to say they were deducting for marks on the walls and worn carpets. When they moved in every wall had multiple marks, scuffs etc and it was impossible to list every one. We took multiple photos and reported to the letting agents. The carpets were also very worn already. Many other issues all reported when they moved in and never resolved - broken washbasin, toilet didn't flush properly, lamp shade missing in the toilet. Whole house was very shabby and dirty when they moved in. Two mattresses were heavily stained and we bought new ones.

What's the process for raising a complaint about the deposit? She's emailed the agents, attaching photos and correspondence from when they moved in and photos from when they moved out and disputing the deductions. What do they do now though? Wait for a response or raise a dispute with deposit scheme?

Really no need for solicitors letters. A polite email saying you will take it to dispute if a costed and evidenced list of proposed deductions is not provided within 10 days of the end of the tenancy, and then a reminder on the ninth day. In these emails DD agreed to pay her share of the cleaning and utilities even though the bulk of the cost probably fell to the person who stayed in the flat through lockdown, and their friends. Contractually though this was not a landlord problem.

I am a landlord. It is a complete pain to have to gather everything together and to make the case. You only do it if it deductions are major and clearly warranted. I almost always agree something reasonable with outgoing tenants before they go, then organise the clean myself. They get the deposit release authorised on the day they go, and they/I save the cost of a check out inventory.

If anything, the system is biased towards tenants. However if they can’t be bothered to check the guidance on the deposit holders website and write two short, but clear, emails what can you do. Equally if they don’t make an effort to leave it as they found it, they need to pay.

@Needmoresleep

Really no need for solicitors letters. A polite email saying you will take it to dispute if a costed and evidenced list of proposed deductions is not provided within 10 days of the end of the tenancy, and then a reminder on the ninth day. In these emails DD agreed to pay her share of the cleaning and utilities even though the bulk of the cost probably fell to the person who stayed in the flat through lockdown, and their friends. Contractually though this was not a landlord problem.

I am a landlord. It is a complete pain to have to gather everything together and to make the case. You only do it if it deductions are major and clearly warranted. I almost always agree something reasonable with outgoing tenants before they go, then organise the clean myself. They get the deposit release authorised on the day they go, and they/I save the cost of a check out inventory.

If anything, the system is biased towards tenants. However if they can’t be bothered to check the guidance on the deposit holders website and write two short, but clear, emails what can you do. Equally if they don’t make an effort to leave it as they found it, they need to pay.

I think we’d all exhausted the polite email route, sadly. It was cleaner and in better repair than when they took it on. We’d photographs to prove it, as we always do a full inventory and photos of any areas that need attention before letting them sign the tenancy agreement.

Still they talked nonsense about professional deep cleaning and gardeners. It was just a fairly frequent scam to part students parents with their cash. We’re landlords too and would never fleece our tenants as some fleece students.

Did the deposit holder reject their claim?

The reason I ask is that there is a process that is easy for tenants to access and which is designed to protect them.

The idea that solicitors letters are needed might put some off. When they move in they should be given some sort of right to rent booklet. (I forget the name but it is a statutory requirement.) Then the deposit has to be held with a recognised deposit holder, who again puts lots of guidance on their website.

Reminding letting agencies of their statutory duties should work. And if not, the deposit arbitration process almost certainly will.

They tried to sort it out and failed. The landlord was, at best, slippery. They said the place was filthy, that there was damage, that the garden was full of rubbish. It was all lies as one of the parents had been down to supervise the clear up. The agency were hopeless and being at a distance made it harder to negotiate as we couldn’t go to the agency to discuss it and they rarely answered anything.
A solicitors letter was swift and effective rather than a stream of claims and counterclaims.

I have paid deposits to five landlords in two different cities and have hardly seen a penny back. The landlords use it to pay for normal wear and tear.

Frangipani, but did you ever dispute the proposed deductions?

The process is a simple one, and does not involve claims and counter claims. I am concerned that these tales are putting others off.

The landlord has to provide a list of proposed deductions within 10 days. With email it is not so hard. And if the place was a tip to start with he is not going to be able to supply an independent inventory that says otherwise.

If a tenant disagrees they open a dispute with the deposit holder. The landlord then has to do the work, justifying his claims.

He cannot deduct for normal wear and tear, just damage. Carpets and paintwork in rental properties are not expected to last very long, so unless they are brand new when you move, he can only charge a proportion of the replacement costs when you move out. He is on a hiding to nothing if he has not done a proper check in and check out. Or can’t provide receipts for professional cleans.

Unless a landlord proves deductions are reasonable the tenant will not be charged.

Honestly the process from a landlord’s point of view is awful and time consuming. Most landlords will much prefer to arrive at a reasonable settlement than go through arbitration. Normally all the tenant needs to do is threaten arbitration, and sound organised, and the landlord will cave.

And the timetable is clear. The LL has 10 days.