Law - Uni of Birmingham

[honkytonkheroe]

Hi, my daughter has a deferred conditional place for Psychology at Uni of Birmingham for 2021. However, she has now decided that she actually wants to do Law. Her head has said to phone them and they may just change her course. I said to wait until she has her results (she is hoping for A*AA or AAA) and then email initially (giving her a change to sell herself a little and put some of what would form part of a personal statement) and take it from there, but we'll after all this year's intake have been sorted. Failing this she will withdraw her application and start again. Birmingham does not require an LNAT. Has anyone got any experience with doing anything similar or does anyone have any suggestions?

I would do it now. If there are places available for law they may otherwise be snapped up in clearing or adjustment. She has nothing to lose by asking now.

She has deferred to 2021 and doesn't want to go before then. That's why she would hold off until 2020 has been decided.

Birmingham isn’t the best place for Law but it’s solidly top 20. Check how many students actually work in legal training schemes after graduation. There’s a huge over supply of law grads when compared to training contracts. Also other grads can become lawyers too so it’s a very very crowded market which means the majority of law grads don’t get anywhere near being a solicitor or barrister or in house lawyer. So she needs to really want this career and do her best to achieve it.

Would she consider other universities and choose on the basis of law, not psychology? She might still come up with Birmingham but elsewhere might appeal more. (Avoid Scottish law - Unless she wants to practice in Scotland). Then talk to Birmingham if it’s still best for her.

I assume her A level subjects are ok for applying for law. What interest has she demonstrated in law? She could also do the Law conversion course after the psychology degree. I think she should weigh up a few more aspects of law before making a hasty decision.

I forgot to mention: universities requiring LNAT might be considered to be the better courses. Often borne out by recruiters preferences too. This is the list.

Dd looked at law there, I may be wrong you’d have to check but I think they were one of the ones that wanted LNAT before applying.

Best option is to phone and ask, if you don’t ask, you don’t get 😊

Hi, thanks for your reply. My eldest did her law degree at Birmingham and now a solicitor in a big London firm. Her boyfriend also did and is doing a TC in London. It is hard but our experience is that if you have atleast AAA and a 2.1 from a good uni then it isn't ridiculously hard. She is v set on Birmingham but they won't change courses then she will do the LNAT and apply to other unis. We ruled out so many when looking for Psychology and this time the unis are largely the same. So far she's shown no commitment to law because the decision to do a law degree came a bit out of the blue, I can't lie. I think she has ruled it out quite early because it was her sister's subject and was already going to the same uni. Instead she went with her favourite A level subject but then realised it isn't really for her. Additionally, she's been exposed to a legal dispute in the last 18 months and realised how interesting law could be. With regard to A level subjects, any A level that is not considered a soft option is fine.

When my eldest was there she had to do the LNAT but they have since dropped it. I was wondering how likely they were to change her subject though. After all, her PS was for Psychology so they'd be swapping her on the basis she had the grades a wrote a good PS for a different subject!

She is v set on Birmingham but they won't change courses then she will do the LNAT and apply to other unis.

Surely if they won't just change her course she can still have Birmingham as one of her choices if she puts in a new application for Law courses?

Sorry, I didn't explain myself very well. She would put Birmingham down but at this point would add in Bristol, Exeter and 2 others as wouldn't want to apply to just Birmingham in case she got rejected. To give this her best shot, she'd have to do the LNAT.

Birmingham does say on its web site that they “don’t accept transfers into the Law School from any other Programme, including other Law programmes”. If “programme” means “course” then she may well have to apply again for the law course because they won’t accept her from psychology. She should contrast and compare law courses and not just follow family. (In my view).

I always recommend law.I loved it and am a lawyer. It was a very good 3 years. I don't know what Birmingham's rules are about swapping subjects but would do no harm to ask them now. As you say family members have done fine going there and then into legal careers too. There is a list of where law firms often recruit from here www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/law-firms-preferred-universities-2019 Birmingham does fine although double the number almost get jobs from Bristol and Exeter which is probably simply because exam grades of students in GCSE and A level are likely to be higher at those universities rather than law firms don't like Birmingham.

A lot of regional firms recruit from regional universities. The report makes that clear. It’s interesting reading though.

Yes, that's true and in fact applying for university the one thing I was clear about was I did not want to go to London where my uncle lived nor work there.... then that changed during my degree and I only applied to London firms 139 application, 25 interviews in my final law degree year and at last got a training contract.

Also plenty of Birmingham lawyers move to London for their career and vice versa.

If she actually wants to go into the law, she really doesn’t need to do a law degree. She can do the Graduate Diploma in Law after her undergraduate degree. A law degree can be very academic and dry compared to practice, I am a solicitor and I am very glad that I didn’t do a law degree as I think it would actually have put me off pursuing it as a career.

My DD didn’t do a law degree either and she’s a barrister. It’s not vital at all. The GDL costs though unless you are sponsored. Or poor. She should study whatever she will do well at and enjoy at university.

DD best friend did the post Grad law diploma after a degree in Accounting and Economics. She has now a job in a top London law firm. When she got offered the job they said her knowledge was much wider than someone who had only done a law degree and that was what they were now looking for in future employees.

They like both. I think recruitment is about 50:50. Economics in city law firms will always be a plus. They quite like linguists too. Anything that is complementary to international law companies working in major financial centres is a great combination with law.

It is about 50/50 for legal recruitment. i really enjoyed my law degree. It wasn't dry at all - it was full of interesting case law eg in family law what comprises rape, where does the penis have to be put. I have never understood why people think law degrees are "dry". What I learned in those 3 years which is much greater depth than you learn on the GDL I use regularly even all these years later.

The GDL is a means to an end. It’s not the same as a degree. It’s not meant to be. It’s a quick snapshot of all areas of law and family didn’t get much attention I understand. The big law firms do their own fast track GDL and I assume they have some control over what is taught as they are paying.

I would caution against paying for it unless you are shit hot intellectually (or well off - or both) and are likely to be successful in your chosen area of law. If your company is paying or you get an award from an Inn of Court then that’s different.

Thanks everyone. She is back with Psychology currently but may consider law in the future!

Hi HonkyTonk it would be a good degree to have before doing law conversion if she decides to. Just tell her to make sure she gets that 2.1 as you mentioned above.

And if she wants to do law after one of the most important things as well as good grades is timing - not that any of my children ever listen to me on this..... the law firms recruit years ahead so eg after year 1 at university not reading law she might want to spend the autumn applying for vacation schemes, after year 2 training contracts (for several years ahead). All the dates are on the law firm websites so anyone with an internet connection can check. Not all firms recruit so far ahead but those that pay the most all do.

Seen your update op. Sensible. Was going to say there is a rather strong correlation between those who have ‘been involved in a dispute’ or whose fault have been and become interested and those who struggle. It seems not to be a good place to come from and often misguided/youthful zeal etc rather then real interest or altitude. Barrister here.
Good luck to your dd.

Family not fault.

Aptitude not altitude. Apols. All thumbs this am.