Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

Oxford MAT - can it outweigh less than perfect A levels?

42 replies

WobblyPenumbra · 24/06/2020 16:58

DS (year 13) was always going to take a gap year this year. He has had a difficult couple of years due to diagnosed SEN and MH issues (long story), but is fundamentally very able. He’d been planning to put his head down and cram in the run up to A levels and get straight A*s, in Maths, Economics and History, which was optimistic but not out of the question, and aim to take Further Maths during gap year.

What with one thing and another his allocated grades will now probably be AAB - possibly better, but we need to be realistic.

He’s now aspiring to Maths and Philosophy at Oxford, which would be over-ambitious with those grades (School is private so no contextual offers). However he is really good at puzzles and more challenging tests eg the Maths Challenges. The question is, if he manages to excel at the Oxford Maths Admission Test in October, might that be enough to get him an interview despite iffy A levels?

OP posts:

TheoneandObi · 25/06/2020 08:15

You've had good advice here Op. for context my DD is just finishing her maths masters (integrated so in her fourth year she has been able to go off piste study and unit wise) at Durham. Had 4 A stars at A level and a full sweep at GCSE too (old system!!). She's now holding two post grad offers for LSHTM and Imperial. She failed to get into Oxford because she flunked her MAT (no prep at her state school. And who knows maybe she wasn't able enough too.). Honestly I think your son ought to think creatively and go next rung 'down' and excel there. He can still go on to post grad. In fact I think it's far better fir MH to be top of the pile at a less demanding institution than struggling at a high flying one. Maybe look for something different like a year abroad in the degree, something that's just not offered at Oxbridge. Even the process of getting into oxford is bruising. Encourage him to be kind to himself, and good luck x

Xenia · 25/06/2020 08:49

I don't know about Oxford but my twin sons who are at Bristol got AAA and AAB (the B was the highest grade in his subject at his private school (!!!) in his university subject and he won the school prize in it but no one of course will ever contexualise that B - not that it really matters). Bristol does have contextualised offers - if you went to one of the 40% worst schools for A level results in the UK you get an offer a grade or two lower . My sons both got (just) the results for their offers (the AAB one had applied for a less popular subject, a BA, than his twin who is BSc).

None of my 5 children tried Oxbridge and may not have got in but the 3 who went to Bristol have loved it and it has not stopped my daughter working for a very good law firm in London and that kind of thing.

For your son it is up to him. My children thought it was too much effort and they might not get in to Oxbridge - not a commendable attitude but they are very laid back without mental health issues so I suppose there is that......
I would think places like Durham, Warwick, Bristol probably open almost as many career doors for maths as Oxbridge.

bpisok · 25/06/2020 10:50

Except he wouldn't get into Durham or Warwick with those predictions..he still needs 2 x A* A and will be at a big disadvantage without FM.

He would need to lower his sights further or retake.
Not what you (or he) wants to hear

SomeoneElseEntirelyNow · 25/06/2020 11:07

@Xenia when was that though? I applied for uni nearly 10 years ago (2nd year of a at a level) and Durham, Warwick and Bristol all wanted a in your chosen subject. I don't think OP's son will get into a top 10 uni for maths with AAB and no FM, to be brutally honest. I think an expectations adjustment is in order, or he's going to be heartbroken

Xenia · 25/06/2020 11:30

Good points. I am not a maths expert so do not want to mislead anyone.

In 2010 the A star came in so my older children's and my A levels were done with no A star available. My twins are still at Bristol. They don't read maths and maths is special as far as I am aware - certainly their school said by all means do it if you are brilliant at it (I think there are more A stars in maths than other subjects) but don't do it if you are not, even if you got As or higher in it as my twins did at GCSE, and don't do it because your parents are pushing you into it as they found too many children doing it because parents like STEM and then the child took it and only got C or D. I think you are either very very good at it or not.

My AAB son at Bristol only had to get those grades in any subjects for his arts subject. Even so AAA and AAB are good grades. Lots of people get Cs like my older son or no A levels nor even GCSEs. My BSc son at Bristol (no contextual offer as private school) had to get A not A star in his current subject.

(My twins finish this term - hopefully 2/1s but we shall see.... and start 2 years of post grad law next).

Hargao · 25/06/2020 12:15

I echo the idea that Oxbridge is not the right place for someone with mental health issues. A maths degree even less so and particularly not if there are any questions on whether he has the maths ability for it. My DB did maths at Oxford. His (very academic but not top public) private school said he was one of the most gifted mathematicians they had seen in years. He came out of Oxford feeling he wasn't that great at maths because the standard was so high. I went to the other place and was strong in maths (A in FM, pre A*) but there is just no chance I could have kept up in Cambridge maths post about week 1 (and I got a first in the subject I did do).

I can't comment on how his predicted grades have been impacted by the mental health issues of course but A-level maths should have been a walk in the park if he was at the required level. From what you've described, he really should think twice. It is probably not the best place for him.

My0My · 25/06/2020 13:01

As the OPs DS is at private school he won’t get the AAB offer for this course at Bristol in the normal run of things. The universities mostly want A* in maths and they want all A levels taken at the same time. This year they might waive that of course. As he’s not done FM with, presumably, excellent teaching available, I would think this course is a stretch at any top ranking university. I think there is a big need to be realistic and be aware he’s not good enough at maths to do this at the best universities.

Hargao · 25/06/2020 13:30

Maths has always been one subject where I feel required ability levels vary greatly across universities and it's not necessarily reflected in degree outcomes. I have a cousin who has a first in maths from a red brick (but not one known for maths). She is not as talented in maths as I am (this isn't me being bitchy, we are the same age and I saw how much she worked and how much I worked and how results compared) and not in anyway on the same level as DB but she got a first working hard. She just wouldn't have achieved that on DB's course, I suspect she'd have struggled to get a 2.1. Unless you are planning a career as a mathematician (or in other of the cutting edge mathematical sectors) then it probably doesn't matter as long as it's a well respected university and is a course your DS will enjoy. His mental health during uni is far far more important.

My0My · 25/06/2020 14:14

But maths courses are top ranked for a reason. Most people know which are the most difficult and challenging courses. That doesn’t mean other courses are not worthwhile and valuable.

Hargao · 25/06/2020 17:05

Was that to me? I agree completely. Unless someone is extremely able in maths it may be better to do a less competitive maths course and achieve a better result at the end as the content will be different.

MarchingFrogs · 25/06/2020 19:07

I was going to suggest Lancaster, which offers BA Maths and Philosophy, but just looked and the requirements are AAA with either Maths or FM, or AAB with both.

SeasonFinale · 25/06/2020 19:10

I think he should take the exams in the November sititng to see if he can improve the grades. The school may very well be prepared to predict higher predictions for a 2021 UCAS application if they are aware of his mental health issues he had during the prior 2 years and if he was indeed on an upward trajectory but they didn't have evidence to back up an award of higher grades at this stage.

velourvoyageur · 25/06/2020 19:51

I wouldn’t give Ox a miss just because he could struggle with MH. Times have changed - Oxford now offers an excellent range of formal support. Of course you can be unlucky and have an unsupportive tutor, but there has been a great deal of catching up done in recognising that Oxford is a very high pressure environment and that some people need support to get the best out of it, so there have been numerous means of help put in place and you’re encouraged to seek them out. It’s explicitly mentioned in first year welcome type sessions that many people will struggle at some point because of the pressure, so struggling has been officially destigmatised from that angle. Oxford has pumped a lot of money into making sure anyone can avail themselves of some kind of help if they’re struggling.
Look into the Disability Advisory Service, for one thing.

nicenames · 25/06/2020 20:05

@velourvoyageur

My original query was not to say Oxford shouldn't be considered under any circumstances if you have MH issues, just that I'm not sure that if you really are trying to scrape in (which the OP's son will be doing as he hasn't sailed through his course and there are bits of the content he will have missed) AND have MH issues then the demands of the course (which are greater than many universities - intense) might be a bit much. I had MH issues in my teens but sailed through my A Levels and got in to Oxbridge and managed there (though I did have a relapse on the MH side) - this is not intended as a boast, just an illustration that some MH issues affect your academic performance significantly to the point that you cannot keep up with the work and some don't.

My0My · 26/06/2020 00:13

Sorry Hargao! Yes it was! I think we agree that there are suitable courses for all and the desire for Oxford seems misplaced here.

Decorhate · 26/06/2020 08:35

@velourvoyageur I know someone who graduated recently. They got glandular fever quite badly one year & their tutor recommended they take time off and resit the year. They had to go before an interview panel which brought them to tears to prove they were not just trying to gain an advantage by having more time to study...

velourvoyageur · 26/06/2020 18:34

Nice I see what you mean, I understand that if you’re underprepared any uni level maths course would be too steep a learning curve for most, and especially if you don’t yet have coping strategies for stress. I think I was also reacting to this thread as an example of what you hear a fair bit on these boards, that Ox is a pressure factory and that it’s more for a particular type of person who’s very robust and not ‘sensitive’, but maybe that was unfair of me. Still, that couldn’t have been further from my (recent) experience, where I saw support pretty much pushed in our faces at every turn! I think it could be reassuring to people reading this thread to know that.

Decor sorry to hear that, I hope they’re better now. I’m sure there is room for improvement. It could be that support at the centralised university level is less variable than that at the college level (don’t know where the panel was drawn from). It’s not always like that with rustication, though, and poor understanding of chronic fatigue related issues is a problem nearly everywhere.

Flip

1 2