Teaching as a career- how to prepare? -primary or secondary? etc etc?

[SlackSally]

Ok, this is a very big question and probably won't be easy (or even possible) to answer, but I guess there's no harm in asking.

I am in the middle of an English degree and after some thought about what one is actually supposed to do with such a degree, I've settled (I think) for trying my hand at teaching. This is due to many factors, a large one being that I personally remember several of the best teachers I had and would love to make that sort of difference to (a) child(ren)'s life.

What I want to know is: how should I prepare for this plan in advance of applying to do a PGCE? I'm pretty sure some kind of experience of the classroom would be essential. Would it matter what kind of teaching experience I gained in relation to what I ended up doing? eg. If I volunteered in a primary school, would that be any help in going on to be a secondary teacher, or vice versa? What else can I do to boost my chances of getting a PGCE place/becoming a decent teacher?

My biggest question is whether to go for primary or secondary. Obviously, one is not inherently 'better' than the other and it's hard to know how to advise someone else, but if anyone could give me the pros and cons of each ( to their minds) that would be a great help. I'm leaning toward primary, but have been told by some that most primary school teachers do teaching as a degree, and are better prepared for the pastoral side of teaching younger children, as opposed to having the subject specific knowledge of someone with an ordinary degree in something. Is this true? Or a load of guff?

Sorry about the question bombardment, but I'm only in the early stages of researching what I might need to do and any advice from the wise owls of MN would be a massive help. Thanks a lot in advance.

The only difference that I really know is that senior school teachers specialise.

I know you're researching... but if you feel that you are leaning towards Primary school teaching... well maybe that's where your heart wants you!

Im not to sure how the English schools are,in the U.S. If you are half way thru an English degree,wouldnt that help you to teach English in secondary? I think here,first school would be easier.The secondary is with teen agers, & they are more difficult to handle, what with drugs, etc.It may be better there.

Primary - pros - I can't think of many which is why I teach secondary , I suppose the kids are younger so perhaps less trouble but not necessarily so. Better community relations/ links, you only have one class so there is a stronger pastoral element.

Primary cons - less time away from kids which means a lot of out of hours planning and marking.
Less career development IMO
Less money
If you have a nightmare class that is it day in and day out
Clingy whiny kids.
fewer work colleagues.

Secondary - pros - IMO the best job ever
Lots of room for career development whether along pastoral or academic path.
Specialising in your subject.
Teenagers are fab to work with.
Money is better.
A bigger operation usually and therefore a wider mix of people.
You get to teach more kids so if you have a nighmare class it is only a few hours a week

Secondary cons :Behaviour can be an issue, teenagers can be a nightmare to work with.
You do sometimes feel like you are on a production line as kids come and go and it can take longer to build those relationsips.
Workload like primary is immense.

IT is horses for courses and for many of the teachers I have known behaviour has been the decider, I ahve known quite a few secondary teachers leave for primary as they said classroom management was easier. I can't peronally see how managing 30 5 year olds could be easier but maybe I could do year 5 and six.

As for weork experience get as much as you can, some PGCE courses don't take you on if you have not had some experince working in a school. We employ cover assistants (secondary) who do not have PGCEs and this may be a way to find out if you like staffroom culture and enjoy working in education. Things like youth work (if you can find unqualified youth work)or any kind of volunteering to work with kids is another good option. In primary you may get work experience in their breakfast or after school clubs or doing after school sports activities.

If you are leaning towards primary than I would follow your gut instincts or ask yourself why are you leaning that way.

MOst of the primary teachers I know did a BA in education TBH but you can do a PGCE in primary.

Thanks everyone, so far. Any other views?

SlackSally - I have to say that I was about to post on this, then discovered that twinset had written basically exactly the same as me ...

The only thing I would ask is this: when you carry on your research, make sure you ask the ITT providers what their employment rate is like ... here in Wales (where I am), it is very difficult for NQTs to get a job, as it tends to bit "dead man's shoes" ... and the colleges are still training more teachers than are needed here.

If you're liing in the south east, however, you should have such a problem.

p.s. I teach secondary French, and wouldn't do anything else - it's the best job ever!

Spend some time in both types of schools and see which you like best. I run a secondary ITT course and won't recruit anyone who hasn't spent time in school before applying

Ah, and I should probably mention that the reason I was leaning toward primary is because the idea of standing in front of a class of 30 potentially hostile and bored teenagers terrifies me at the moment. I'm not sure if this is something that will pass, something that teachers learn to live with or a sign that it's not for me. I think part of it is I'm really small (this sounds ridiculous now I write it) and think perhaps kids would see me as an easy target (though I'm more than capable of standing up for myself/giving as good as I get etc).

Agree that it's a good idea to spend time in both phases. If you want to teach primary, how do you feel about 'needy' children (asking if they can take their jumper off, etc.) Are you sufficiently interested in other subjects across the curriculum?

Which would you be happier with, teaching a whole curriculum to a small number of children (or most of it at any rate), or teaching your subject to a large numer of children?

If you like the holistic approach, go primary.

If you are passionate about your subject teach in secondary

That is a very crude breakdown, and naturally to two do overlap!

It would drive me mad to be with the same 30 kids every day (I teach in secondary)

Only seeing kids twice a week, for 2 hours and 20 minutes would frustrate my SIL (primary teacher)

Go to both and spend time shaddowing the staff, and see which you prefer.

re the behaviour issue, it can be a real problem in Primart too, but may well manifest itself in different ways. I know primary teachs who work with children who sit under the tables and will not come out, for example.

The difference is that it can blow up faster in secondary, but oTOH, if you have a difficult child in secondary their bevahiour may be more challenging, but you only see them for part of a time table.

The disruptions may be more low key in primary, but if you have a distruptive child you will have them all the time.

But I wouldn't concentrate on the negatives too much, ask yourself what positive things you would like to get out of teaching, and which phase will fullfill those most.

Wow. Thank you so much everyone. I think the advice to try out both is probably the best approach as I'm sure there will be pros/cons to each I hadn't considered yet.

I'm in the south east, between Portsmouth and Brighton (not somewhere in the middle, I'm from Portsmouth, currently living in Brighton), and had thought about the issue of employment opportunities, but I have to admit I'm clueless in this area. Do you think any ITT providers with relatively poor rate would tell you that, or is it an actual requirement?

So much good advice, I'm actually getting excited about it now (early days, I know).

I'm having the same discussions in my head about this at the moment. Have been to my 1st voluntary day at a Primary School today and boy have things changed in the way children are taught nowadays?
I have a degree in Music and love perfoming but am shit scared of working with stroppy teenagers as I was a bit of a shit at school myself and wished I'd listened and learnt more looking back.

If I go for Primary I have to resit Science GCSE which I loathe! and learn so much new stuff about teaching the whole curriculum?

OR

Do I go for Secondary and get stuck into my music which I am passionate about and have to grin and bear the stroppy ones?

May ring my old school and see if I could go in for few days and see what its really like....thanks for advice

Sorry to have just taken over your thread btw but I am also confused about this...

Definitely go and see for yourself. Things are very different to how you might imagine them to be.

When I first went into teaching, I originally started to train as a primary school teacher, but after trying it out I decided that Secondary was much easier and I love it!

Just to echo some of the really good points others hae made...

There does seem to be much less career progression in Primary - so you have to ask yourself how important that is to you.

Would you be happy with the same children all week? What if you dislike one/more? How good are you at being with people you don't like? (This was a big thing that put me off!)

How important is your subject to you? Would you be happy / confident in teaching all the subjects?

How important is having your own mental stimulation? One of the things that I love about teaching 'A' level (I do RS - philosophy) is that I am continually learning new things about my subject and am mentally stimulated. You don't get this so much in primary. Would you miss that?

There are lots of questions that really only uoi can answer - so go and find out. Good luck!

TBH, if you go in for a day, it is overwhelming, but you do get into the swing of things.

I teach in secondary and I love the job

As a specialist music teacher, you have to put up with those who are awful at music, and be encouraging.

You also have to do a lot of extracurricular work, including minor things like providing all the music for the annual products . You may also have to administer all the peripatetic staff and lessons.

In the primary sector, you will be worth your weight in gold.

*annual production

that is true ST.

Mind you, I'm not sure i'd be brave enough to do the Nativity in Primary! all those Disgusted Parents who are annoyed that their little Flossy is only a sheep and that awful Mandy girl is playing Mary

Nowadays there is a healthy mix of primary teachers who have a BEd and those who have a PGCE. There is still some discrimination by BEdders against PGCErs but it's becoming a thing of the past. So don't let that issue sway you.

More men in secondary which can lead to a more enjoyable staff room. Sounds like a minor point, but something to think about.

So are you saying go for Primary ST?

Lol MB

Very true, MB. Oh, the memories come flooding back

all that 'And she was the Archangel Gabriel last year.....its onl;y because her mother is big in the PTA'

Too scared, me!

SlackSally - I saw your post about feeling physically intimidated by the thought of teeneagers ... I'm only 5'2" myself, and some of my students think it's hilarious that I can't reach the top of the board ... but, I have made a reputation for myself (of not taking any crap basically), and although some will still play up, they play up for everybody, not just for the shortarse French teacher.

Also, remember they'll be sitting down most of the time in your English lessons ...

There's no substitute for going and seeing what it's really like - and don't just stick to one secondary school ... go to see one with a good reputation, and an ordinary one ... not everybody is going to end up teaching in the leafy suburb school (although having said that, I taught in a leafy suburb school for 6 years, and hated the atmosphere - I felt like a poorly paid tutor for the over-privileged. I now teach in an inner-city comp, and the atmosphere is so much more inclusive and friedly!)

Have not read all the post but have you considered lecturing in a further education college? You could teach highers/A levels/English as a second language?

I have actually. It appeals to me (selfishly) as a good option because you know most of your teachees will really want to be there. Would it involve the same qualifications as secondary teaching? Or something altogether different?

Hi slacksally

I'm a primary teacher and came to the decision of teaching primary after spending LOTS of time in differents schools with different age groups. Every ITT provider will expect a good amount of hands on experience anyway and this is the only way to really know if teaching is for you. Without sounding patronising, it might be a real eye opener in terms of the workload/expectations but will also help you to think about whether you want to teach the whole curriculum to the same class every day or specialise.

My degree is also in English - I got a very good classification and am passionate about the subject, hence why my uni. tutors were intially horrified that I wasn't considering specialising in it! However, I figured that in the real world of secondary teaching, my 'passion' might not necessarily be felt by all and behaviour wise, seemed to much to cope with.

I also briefly considered FE - a word of warning though - there are not that many ITT providers where you can train for teaching FE only. Quite a few tutors that I know actually did a secondary PGCE which also qualifies you to teach at FE. The problem with doing FE training means that you can only teach in FE - these aren't normally accepted in secondary schools. Also, there aren't many full time, permanent FE posts. Colleges tend to employ people on an ad-hoc, part time basis.

Finally, I agree with the poster who talked about the job market for NQTS. I was fortunate to be offered a job at the school where I trained. However, out of the 160 people on my primary course last year, only about half got jobs. Also, the jobs that are about are often fixed time contracts - teaching appears to be moving in the direction of other industries where contracts are renewed yearly. I not trying to put you off - it's just that if view teaching as a 'safe' option regarding job security you'd be mistaken. Most jobs that I went for had 80+ applicants (south east).

In saying all that, if you really want to do it, you'll know deep down in your heart. I trained and raised my family for four years - it was the hardest thing I've ever done, but now I love my job. Good luck with whatever you choose to do. Oh, and please excuse spelling mistakes - it's been a long day!