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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

University 2020 :4: The wait for grades and better days ahead

999 replies

MillicentMartha · 20/03/2020 22:00

New thread for us. Interesting times.

Old thread here

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Thread gallery
8
Newgirls · 01/05/2020 09:45

This thread is more useful than some elsewhere in mumsnet!

Quite fancy an omelette now

MillicentMartha · 01/05/2020 09:58

But can you buy eggs, Newgirls? If so, what’s your source and do they sell flour too? Wink

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Newgirls · 01/05/2020 10:06

😂 I need 240 people to discuss

sandybayley · 01/05/2020 10:37

I have just seen a flour mountain in SW London! Brakes did a delivery to our local independent shop.

oneteen · 01/05/2020 14:12

I still have a reluctant teen in the kitchen.. I brought her an all singing and dancing kitchen/processor system but it's only been used to blend cocktails and smoothies..

Would you be tempted to ask (enormously) for previous A level results by subject?School don't publish them..retiring head very anti league tables etc and the school have been oversubscribed the last two years without publishing them.. Although sixth form small and still probably not full in both lower and upper sixth.. DD chilled because her mocks and recent work should warrant her predicted grades being her assessed grades but I feel in the dark about grades at subject level...i know last years cohort did well in Maths and Foreign languages and 45 percent got A*A but that's it.

MillicentMartha · 01/05/2020 14:24

I’d be tempted to ask. The worst they can say is no. If you are asking for your DD’s subjects only, they might be willing?

DS’s sixth form does publish them in their online general information book but only for the previous year. Wish I’d screen shot it last year! I’ve found it fairly comforting as his school has a really good track history with maths in particular, and both FM and CS results are OK. DS reckons he knows roughly where he’s ranked for FM and CS, both small classes, under 10. He’s not so sure in maths as there are ~50 over 3 classes, but that’s likely to be his best result anyway. So our hopes of A*AB do seem reasonable. 🤞🤞🤞

DS’s previous school doesn’t publish theirs. It’s not as high achieving so maybe not as ‘proud’ of its results?

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Oratory1 · 01/05/2020 15:20

I found DS school's for the last three years in the A level course booklet. He is fairly sure of his ranking (small classes) and his likely teacher grades, whilst perhaps not as high as he could have got if things went well, should be enough to get him into his preferred uni. What I am really worried about is the statistical standardization as the historic school results (small non selective indie) in two subjects are way below what he needs. He may be saved by the fact that he has 8/9's at GCSE in those subjects but it is a worry.

He is hoping that if he has to re sit it should only be in one subject so that wouldn't be so bad. He s not interested in his insurance or clearing and ideally wants to go in September even if things aren't back to normal yet but if he has to re sit he will.

HuaShan · 01/05/2020 15:51

I have similar concerns Oratory as ds is an outlier at his school. I have no doubt he would have achieved the required grades in the summer as he exceeded them in 2 sets of mocks. He is very calm about it since he cant do anything but would be quietly very upset, particularly as his firm is 'the other place' and he worked really hard in the application and admissions test phase.

MillicentMartha · 01/05/2020 15:54

Neither of us can really stop worrying, can we Oratory? I think it’s programmed into us. I’m crossing fingers for your DS as well as the other DC on this thread. 🤞🤞🤞

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MillicentMartha · 01/05/2020 15:55

For your DS, too, HuaShan. 🤞🤞🤞

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Oratory1 · 01/05/2020 16:50

Thank you !!!!

oneteen · 01/05/2020 16:59

Dds school similar to @Oratory1. I'm not so worried about Dd being assessed at the right grade it's the exam board tinkering in maybe Chemistry that could be a concern.. Th dept didn't predict any A*s not because some girls aren't capable but because fingers were burnt by predicted grades a few years ago. In February the HOD stated this years chemistry cohort was the best they had indeed the syllabus was completed much earlier than normal.. but not knowing previous years results is a concern.. I know the GCSE performance was good. ..I think I'll stay in the dark probably the less stressful option.

Oratory1 · 01/05/2020 17:13

Last years CS results were D,D,E. CS is his degree subject and he needs an A* (oh dear !!). I probably have reason to be concerned but it may all work out on the night :)

Oratory1 · 01/05/2020 17:15

Actually I'm not looking at these things because we are getting stressed or worried (DS is chill by nature) but I think it helps to be prepared for what might happen on the day and why, rather than getting a shock and having to react on the day.

HuaShan · 01/05/2020 17:54

We all need to take a deep breath and hold hands I think. It's the classic 'no control' fears. If it wasn't this it would be something else!

Oratory1 · 01/05/2020 19:30

So true, and he could just as easily have been ill or had a bad day on exam day so I would have been thinking through the same scenarios without COVID.

oneteen · 01/05/2020 19:30

I am sure outliers will be fine... I would have thought if numbers are on the high side for a whole subject in a given exam board then it's probably easier for the exam board to tinker with a larger school or colleges numbers in a given subject if they look on the high side rather than take the sole A* away from one school.

When I put my common sense hat on the worst scenario for Dd is that she will have to drop from the MBio to the Msc and then she'd always have the opportunity to prove herself to swap back to the MBio after the first year. I'm hopeful it won't happen but not a disaster.

Crossing fingers I'm sure all our DC will be fine and hopefully there will be some much needed cheer come August.

Oratory1 · 01/05/2020 20:04

Yes DS has the option of a Bsc at slightly lower grades than the four year Msc. He would be happy with either.

LightandAiry · 02/05/2020 09:53

Morning all, I recognise some names from the GCSE thread for 2018 - have skimmed through will read more thoroughly later some very helpful info....my ds nosedived in his last mock for one of his subjects so he is a bit worried he won't get the grades ABB he needs to study Environmental Science. He's just completed his UCAS form and turned down an unconditional offer to hold out for what he wants.

On our lockdown walk last week we saw a friend's husband who is a professor at a local university and he did say this is the year to really go for the uni they want as anybody 'half decent' will likely be OK - as the numbers of foreign students will fall.

I am jealous of the omelette! No eggs in Sainsbury yesterday - but I am still going to work and there is a very enterprising lady who stops in her van every lunchtime and sells not only sandwiches, but also branched out to eggs, flour, tins of stuff, bread and veg.

Apologies if this is mentioned upthread, but what are your dc plan for accommodation? If it's online he may as well stay at home for first term/longer.

WombatChocolate · 02/05/2020 10:31

I think schools are starting the process now and the key starting point isn't a grade, but a rank order. The grades come later.

So schools will g through several stages to get a year group rank order in a subject. It might start with each individual teacher and then 2 subject teachers working together on a class they share and then on a year group. They will use whatever data they have, looking at everything from across the 2 years and perhaps giving more weight to recent data.

Data managers will have analysed each subject over the last 3 or 5 years to see what % got what grade in each subject. They might adjust for the ability of that cohort and then know roughly what % will need to get each grade in each subject this year. They can then use the rank order to slot students in. At that point they can compare to any likely grade a teacher suggests - that really won't have anything to do with UCAS. We know that we'll over 75% of grades predicted for UCAS are beyond what students achieve. UCAS predictions themselves won't matter at this stage regardless of if they were too generous or not generous enough - it will be rank order based on performance during the course.

People worry that students would have had a big surge with revision over the last weeks and boosted their marks and this won't be accounted for. There is no need to worry about this and essentially it will be factored in. How? Well, the previous grades from past years which are looked at from students who sat the exam will have been achieved by students who had that last surge of revision and boosted their performance to get their final grades. Their final grades won't have been the same as the perhaps disappointing mock result they got in January and in the same way, the grades the students get this summer won't just be the disappointing grade they got in a mock this January, but will be a reflection of what they would get in an exam sat in late May, after that surge of revision.

So rank order is very important. A student that has always been top, regardless of their exact performance is likely to be given a grade by the school which reflects the top grades students in past years achieved. Those who are consistently in the bottom 10% are likely to get a grade which reflects what the bottom 10% have got on average (adjusted for ability if cohort) in past.

It won't just be what the teacher says,mbut the orders might be adjusted by data managers having looked at things like ALIS which project forward based on GCSE and ALIS test performance, but this is likely to be minor tinkering and the teacher rank order will be the basis of it all.

Of course once the Board gets the school grades there will be further adjustments - some schools will have been overly generous and the Board will be looking at the ability of the cohort and looking to maintain parity of grades between years and based on the perceived difficulty of the subject. It's good that the final grades don't rest with the school but the Board.

In the end, as is always the case every year, most students won't achieve their UCAS predictions. If they did, across the country there would be mass inflation. Most wouldn't have achieved them if they sat the exam this summer and most won't get them now. It won't be that they were cheated of the chance to shine in the exam. But, more than ever they will get the uni of choice even if they are a bit below. This is often the case, but without international students and with uni need to fill spaces and government keeness to make sure people can continue to the next stage of education, most will move onto the course of their choice or their insurance or somewhere through Clearing like they always do.

Some students have avoid sense of where they are in the pecking order and others have no idea about it. Very successful schools see 90% plus get A-B and will do so again this year. However, if you have consistently been in the bottom 10%, then it's unlikely that you will be getting the A. But of course that was very unlikely in an exam scenario either.

Teacher ranking will be all important in this.

thesunwillout · 02/05/2020 10:32

Tricky re accommodation, it depends on what the rules will be.
For example, uni course online but students allowed to move to digs, then I think my DC would go.
At least they could start getting to know people and meeting up.
Hard to even consider at the moment.

Ironoaks · 02/05/2020 10:54

DS is now in a routine of doing his own laundry, and cooking skills are coming along, albeit slowly.

He is not receiving any work from school but is finishing off the A-level courses himself. He has enough independent academic work planned to last him until the autumn, and then hopes to start his undergraduate course, even if that has to be online.

Oratory1 · 02/05/2020 11:18

That all very true Wombat and will work very well for the vast majority so I believe it is the right solution, I just hope there is enough leeway for anomalies like small cohorts where a student is an outlier against previous school results. Results last year in DS degree subject were DDE and no one before has got an A star (one A in the last three years). They have never had an a star in Physics either but have three students (not DS) capable of it this year. And unfortunately the shortage of students to fill places may not be the case in CS.

If it doesn’t work out we may have to accept that he was an unfortunate exception in a largely fair system that worked for the majority. But hopefully the small numbers mean they get through unnoticed or because overall the schools results are not too far outside the average.

3catsandadog · 02/05/2020 11:28

Hi @Oratory1
Your DS school sounds very similar to my DD. Very small cohort, non-selective Indie, low results last year but stronger cohort this year.

From my understanding GCES's are taking into consideration across the cohort not individually.

Also, small centres are being considered as per email from OFQUAL below.

We have now launched a consultation (www.gov.uk/government/consultations/exceptional-arrangements-for-exam-grading-and-assessment-in-2020) seeking views on aspects of our proposed assessment arrangements for GCSEs, AS and A levels, and would encourage everyone with an interest to read the proposals and respond. Pages 27-32 in particular may be of interest to you as there is detail on the approach to standardisation and mention of how statistical standardisation will need to accommodate small centres.

goodbyestranger · 02/05/2020 11:39

Schools are currently waiting for the final version of the detailed guidance from Ofqual, following the close of the consultation on Monday.

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