Cambridge colleges - any advice / experiences please?

[Zahra1]

Hello, I was wondering if anyone might be able to provide any insights into the various Cambridge colleges as DS is thinking of applying, as open days don’t really start until June. Just thinking ahead, but it’s all a bit bewildering! Specifically -

• I know Cambridge state your chances of a place are equal regardless of which college you apply to (or not in the case if an open application), but csn this really be the case?

• What are the reputations of various colleges (if any)?

• DS was thinking of applying to Kings, but noticed they take about 85% from state schools every year. Fair enough obviously and in line with national statistics, but, in his case, would he have more chance elsewhere if applying from an independent school eg. St John’s, where the balance is more 50/50?

• Are some colleges eg Trinity and Christ’s considered more academic than others and therefore the bar is higher for entry?

• Do the further out colleges, ie Girton and Homerton, receive less applications and are they therefore easier to get in if you apply to them?

• How can the “pooling system” work effectively when colleges interview differently and some require you to send in some essays prior to interview, while others don’t. How can it be as standardised as they claim?

Does any of this makes any difference to anything? Any advice welcome?

Just wanted to reiterate what jaguar said. DD was going to apply to an out of town college on the basis that there might be less competition for a place.

Looking at the stats a bit deeper it was clear that the less popular colleges fished from the pool more than the more traditional colleges....so the places weren't necessarily given to direct applicants
She applied to one of the 'bigger names' in the end simply because she liked it when she visited. When I asked her what she liked she couldn't articulate it - she just liked 'the feel'.

Also Oxbridge seems to throw up some surprises. A fair few all Astar/9 applicants (GCSE and A Level predictions) getting rejections both before and after interview. So don't get too hung up on it - easier said than done once you get sucked into the process though!!!

That’s a good point about if there’s someone else from the same school applying for the same subject, it would make sense to go for different colleges.

Isn't part of the point of the pooling system to deal with the 'more good candidates than this college can accommodate' issue (certainly seems to fit with the first scenario in a previous post), whether the excess interest comes from the same school or one in Penzance and another in Thurso?

I'm not sure there's a sound basis for schools advising their students not to apply for the same college/subject. Unless it's to reduce the effect on rejected students if they can't make a direct comparison.

I don't honestly know what the guidance would be, so could be wrong, but I think I would not want two students from the same school in the same college teaching group, because it would make for an odd dynamic.

Thanks again for all this.

I’ve no idea if his school would recommend any particular colleges or who should go for what. To be honest, it’s not the type if school that holds Oxbridge as the be-all-and-end-all. They’ve done various talks to them all, about doing what you love above all and that there’s many, many courses that are more competitive than some Oxbridge courses, do don’t get hung up on the prestige element etc etc. A lot of his friends are applying to the US which is a whole other process. They don’t publish their Oxbridge stats, though maybe 20 odd go most years, something like that. They’d be just as likely to mention someone who got into RADA or a certain art school as the headline for “leavers’ destinations” on the website. I think this is a good culture because it takes the pressure off and the students put enough of that on themselves as it is these days.

Do people think Christ’s is might be particularly academic or “choosy?” relative to others because they’re top of the Norrington table and probably keen to stay there? I realise it’s an informal table, but still. I know what the London Day schools are like - all claiming to reject the league tables while actually keeping an close eye on them

Good point too about numbers of other students doing your course in particular colleges because for some if the smaller ones, it appears to be the grand total of 2 or 3 per year.

Thanks for all the insights and great to hear from people with first hand experience of all this.

When DD did this last year, she did an Excel spreadsheet with a list of the colleges, and a list of criteria that were important to her everyday life. (These apparently included being able to walk on the grass, and having an oven to bake brownies!) She was therefore able to quickly rule out most of them, and focus on the ones she was more interested in. Then she looked at YouTube to get a feel of the shortlist, and scored them on various factors (accommodation cost, state v private etc), and applied to the one with the highest score on her criteria. Luckily, she really liked the one she chose, and they also liked her.

Do people think Christ’s is might be particularly academic or “choosy?” relative to others because they’re top of the Norrington table and probably keen to stay there?

No, I don't. They'll have a fairly fixed number of students to take and they'll choose the best.

FWIW, I have taught at a few different Cambridge colleges and only noticed people mention the Norrington table in passing, in a sort of 'hmm, lookie the football results' kind of way. It's possible Senior Tutors take it all much more seriously (and I wouldn't know about that), but mostly people are worried about the REF and about how Cambridge does in terms of other universities, not about how colleges do relative to each other.

It's a nonsense anyway - much of the teaching is done centrally by the faculties, and the 'in college' teaching won't be done only by members of the college - you'll have supervisors from all over the place.

As the parent of a current Cambridge student, I can specify what matters to me & DD. She applied to a college in the touristy part & was interviewed there. She was pooled to another college a little further out, but only heard in January when the offer letter came. She & I went to visit it in February half term and luckily she loved it. She achieved the grades and is now in her 3rd year of 4 and very very happy there.

With the benefit of hindsight, we live 4+ hours away in an area with no public transport. DD requires the parent taxi to get there so parking close to her college is desirable. Where she is now is brilliant. Her college guarantees accommodation on the college's site for all undergraduates. In her 1st year she had a lovely en suite room in the block that 1st years inhabit. It was expensive & the kitchen was not really designed for self-catering. Last year she did well in the ballot and was in the old court overlooking the lawn & chapel. She shared a bathroom so paid less. This year she is in a Victorian house in the college's grounds. It's a bit shabby but it's cheaper again and has a proper kitchen with an oven and a freezer. DD has saved a fortune by batch cooking and the rent is lower. Next year, she has to go back to the 1st year block, but is prepared for that. I can park on the driveway of the house and the 1st/4th year block has parking around it.

Most of DD's work this year is at West Cambridge. 2 weeks ago DH did some major surgery to her bike so I taxied her around. There is loads of building going on there and more departments will be moving there (predominately sciences). DD's college is on that side of the city so it only takes her 10-15 minutes by bike to get there. She has only used the bus twice in 2.5 years of living there.

Last year, DD's Director of Studies let slip that he picked her out of the pool. His words to her were "I think I made a good choice". She walked on air for days! A couple of her good friends from her college are on the same course, but she knows lots of people from many different colleges and has visited & eaten in most now. She actually sings in the chapel choir of a different college and has a number of friends there too. The college is important, but it's not the be-all and end-all.

I have posted this before, but with DD2 we went to the open day in July 2018. We looked around DD's shortlist and only one really appealed. We then went to the one linked with our area which neither of us liked. We then went towards DD1's college and called in at the one where she sings. DD2 loved that one. She wasn't successful at interview but there's no substitute for going and seeing for yourself.

Check out which college is linked to your part of the country and see what they offer. If you can't manage an open day, see if there are any courses for year 12 that your DC can go to. A colleague's DD is going to DD's choir one in 3 weeks. Otherwise, book into a hotel, hop on the park & ride and go visiting. If you say the magic words "prospective student" you can normally have a quick look inside the gates.

Malbec - Thankyou so much for that perspective. I’m sure you’re right, that every college has something going for it (many things in fact) is it’s probably useful not to overthink. And, as you say, there no substitute for actually going there and looking around because there’s obviously only so much you can glean from a website. Thanks also for the choir info, as this was actually another reason DS is keen on Cambridge as he realised 30-odd colleges possibly means 30-odd choir opportunities He’s a baritone / bass with a few years consort choir experience, but how good do you really need to be? Grade 8 minimum? I guess it depends in the choir. He wouldn’t want to commit to chapel singing every day, but maybe a few days a week and would prefer to be in a make/ female choir than one of the more traditional male voice choirs with the choirboys. Also, it’s good to hear you can be in the choirs of different colleges. I guess it depends on where vacancies are? He was also thinking of going to this informal choir open day in a few weeks. You have to choose 3 colleges for this and you can meet the choir directors etc to see if you have a cat in hell’s chance , but to be honest, this is why we were trying to shortlist a bit now, so we can choose 3 to put on the form.

I had no idea that various colleges are linked to different parts of the country. Maybe none are linked to London though because they’re probably not on a mission to attract Londoners in the same way as they are from say, Northern Ireland or other under- represented areas?

Thanks again.

Sarah - thanks and yes, it obviously makes sense that colleges will just select who they think are best, regardless of this Norrington table.

We are clearly overthinking it here - and going slightly demented with those admissions graphs on the website

AnotherNight - your DD sounds very organised and motivated. Good for her!

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In case you missed it Clare

You can actually see in the stats that although only 15% of Kings applicants are from independent schools, the same ratio are made offers, so it’s not that they’re being squeezed out as such, just less apply for whatever reason. No idea why? Maybe it will make more sense when we visit....?

The main reason that Kings is 85% state school is that Kings is 85% state school. Think about it - you are first generation university and no one from your school has ever been to Oxbridge before. Where feels safest to apply?

Quite a lot of the private school kids at Kings had absolutely loathed their private school and were generally very anti private schools / “the establishment” (and washing!)

The college is set up more than many for those from less affluent backgrounds - there is a June Event rather than a May Ball and lots of “Hardship Funds” - but these may be the chicken rather than the egg IYSWIM.

Clare you say... ???

After further inspection if the Kings stats (did I mention I’m going demented)? it might not be too bad. Even though only 15% are applying from independent schools, the ratio of applicants to offers is fairly consistent, regardless of which sector you’re applying from. Also, he is in an independent school but it’s a world away from a leafy, rarefied site a la Eton etc; his school has the delight of a six-lane A road through the middle if it and its won awards for its bursary programme.

Oh if he sings then that adds a whole new perspective.

There are a whole range of talents from future opera star to strictly amateur.

However if he wants to sing fun things for fun can I throw in Fitz Barbershop at this point? He won't have to be a member of Fitzwilliam but I think they are the only male non-religious choir and they are fab.

I'll ask DH later about choirs, some colleges are a lot more serious about their singing standard than others.

Yes with the choir, the one he’s in has about 5-6 of each voice type and they’ve done things like sing evensong in St Paul’s a few times and they’ve been on a few tours overseas. He’s made a lot of friends this way and singing is his absolute favourite thing. He’s will sing anything and anywhere, solo or with anyone, and can sight read, so he’d love to continue with this if he can. He’s about to do grade 8 in the next few months , but maybe he should wait until he’s done that before going to any choral open days. I don’t want him to get too invested because ultimately, it’s going to be about the grades and even then, there’s no guarantees.

Can I just pipe up for Girton please? It's not that far out of town honest. I did find it to have a really relaxed (for Cambridge) vibe. The gardens are huge and gorgeous and during exam term it's quiet and not over run by tourists.
It's a refreshing mix of modern and traditional. I thought the pastoral care was very good.
I applied there because it offered more places for my subject than other colleges.

Clare has a nice choir.

I am not musical at all, so may not 'get it,' but I think doing choir at King's would be pretty intense. I had a couple of students who were in the choir and it seemed to eat up a lot of time and energy, and then there's such an expectation about the kind of singing that they'll do, that I think in some ways it might not have been as much fun as some of the others.

My daughter is 3rd year at Kings doing a humanities subject. She has come from a different place than your DS, state school on the list that gives lower offers. However, many of her friends are from private schools. I don't think the final cohort is 85/15, more like 50/50.

It has been a roller coaster for DD and us, with many positives - great, like minded friends (yes, it is generally pretty left wing), extreme academic pressure, which is to be expected, but difficult anyway. Small, intense town in some ways but also the chance to immerse yourself in your thoughts and studies which for my DD has been a very different atmosphere than school.

The accommodation is more basic than it seems as the rooms are historic and spacious but the beds uncomfortable and the furniture worn. This year, she is in a house with her best friends and a kitchen with an actual oven, so they are ecstatic about that as they all love cooking as a wind down.

All in all, I think she will be pleased she went (very nearly didn't) but it hasn't been an easy ride either. Hope that helps.

OK - update. Kings, St Johns, Clare and Jesus are the really serious choirs with a standard not far off professional. There may be others not far off this level of seriousness.

They take up a lot of time and won't necessarily be made up of students from those colleges as they cream off all the top singers.

As someone who goes to a lot of student music events, there seems to be a population of students at Cambridge who are just doing their degrees as a side event while singing in 3 choirs, doing an opera production, the Gilbert and Sullivan and making a film each year. Bizarrely most of these won't be studying music either. It's all very odd for someone who went to a Russell Group university where you just got your head down and got your degree.

Other college choirs are more sensible and you don't necessarily sing in the choir of the college you are in.

Sorry if I’ve missed it but what’s the subject? Scientists generally have lots of lectures with the year group as a whole, whereas it varies more with humanities and college choice can make more of a difference. I read English and practically all of my teaching was within my college with the 8 other English students in my year at my college. The research interests of the fellows at my college had a major influence on the papers I chose and the direction I took, so have a think about that too.

I don't think the final cohort is 85/15, more like 50/50.

No, it isn't. See here for admissions stats: www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/sites/www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/files/publications/ug_admissions_statistics_2018_cycle.pdf

Has he seen this information about choral awards? Also there is a choral open day on 25 April.

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/finance/music-awards/choral-awards

@SarahAndQuack

That's interesting. I genuinely thought it was more like 50/50. Must be my DD's social group. What I would say is that it doesn't seem to matter once they are there, which must be a good thing.

You are all so kind for taking the time to give all this inside info, you really are. I hope it helpful to anyone else applying too, whatever subject it may be.

Chicken, yes we were possibly thinking of turning up to that day, but as I say, I don’t really want to put the cart before the horse, so wasn’t too sure. Also, we weren’t sure which colleges to tick for which choirs.

Anna - thanks, yes that confirms what we thought about the serious choirs. But I think at Kings they also have a mixed choir called the Kings Voices and something similar at St Johns too which sing once or twice a week, as an alternative to the full on Kings male / boys choir who sing every day in the chapel. I can well imagine it’s more like a career with a degree on the side, yes. DS saw the rehearsal schedule and said he’s going to uni, not joining a religious order!

Sarah, yes exactly. He loves singing, but I wouldn’t want it to become a burden. He does his own (non choral) thing too with the singing.

Some colleges only admit two or three for his subject (Geography). The best “odds” seem to be Homerton and Girton where it’s looks like around 50%- ish have had offers for the last few years, including some extras from the “winter pool”. Any other colleges it can be 25% offers or less, whether this be 1 out if 4 or 5 out of 25. Trinity are a big college aren’t they, but maybe it’s more maths types that apply there because they take 2 or 3, if I’m remembering rightly, out of maybe 8-10 direct applicants.

The mind boggles!!!

Basically, he would sing in any choir that would have him and he’d live anywhere.

The main thing is friends and anywhere will have its ups and downs and drama, I agree Spangle. I’m sure it’s bloody hard work there.

The thing is, he’s working hard in his EPQ and getting good feedback, so I think he may as well use it after all this, as it’s in a relevant topic he could ramble on about at length if they use it for the interview and he’s genuinely interested in it. So it’s 3 colleges that want written work - Trinity, Corpus and Christs. Trinity Hall want two pieces of work. They all take only about 2-3 students though in his subject, whereas Homerton and Girton take maybe 6-8. Queens also look like they make good offers, maybe 5 per year.

Thanks again for the insider info.