Biomedical science at Nottingham Trent?

[ChiaraRimini]

DS1 got ABC at A level last summer. He originally wanted to do medicine but obvs didn't get the grades. He is working as an HCA at the moment and went through a phase of not wanting to go to uni. Then at the last minute he slung in a UCAS application with a fairly random selection of choices. He is thinking about doing biomedical sciences with a view to GEM.
He has got 2 offers from Nottingham Trent and ARU. Originally ARU looked promising as they have a transfer to medicine possible after 1st year of biomedical science- but it's only a v slim chance of being accepted into the medicine course.
His other choices were Dundee, Mcr access for medicine courses- been turned down for, and randomly plant sciences at Nottm.
I'm thinking he should have tried for some other biomedical science courses from higher esteem unis as he may have scraped in and would stand a better chance for GEM than NTU.
Is it worth him taking another gap year and reapplying? I'm still concerned he doesn't really know what he wants to do tbh.

1. He shouldn't do the Access to Medicine course. Most medical schools won't accept anyone via this route who have gone straight from A-levels to Access (even with a 1-year gap).

1. For graduate-entry medicine it's not going to make a difference which university he does his first degree at but he should bear in mind that for some GEM courses he'll have to take GAMSAT; if he hasn't been working hard in his first degree he might get a bit of a shock when he comes to sit this. If he wants to apply as a graduate for standard-entry medicine courses he'll find that some of them have minimum A-level requirements (most often BBB) in addition to degree class requirements.

To be brutally honest, it doesn't sound like he has the level of focus or commitment that would get him through the medicine admissions process anyway. He would need to work on this during a first degree if he seriously wants to pursue medicine later. He should also have a clear plan B: he should only do biomedical sciences if it's going to be some use to him if he doesn't get into medicine at the second attempt.

He will be able to get places in Clearing in August with grades of ABC (I don't know which subjects those are in, so can't suggest which courses or which universities), so where he's applied to in January doesn't necessarily decide where he'll end up.

Thanks- I think I got the name wrong, it was Foundation courses he applied for.
You may be right about the focus, he had problems with anxiety and depression in 6th form so missed a lot of school hence the low grades.

Take a gap year, apply for foundation medicine courses. How about trying to retake the a level he got a C in during the next year and seeing if he can improve it.

Would a young man with anxiety thrive on a medicine course? Very difficult to see this working out well.

He doesn't want to do resits and a lot of medical schools won't accept them anyway.
It's such a shame he bombed his A levels. He did the UKCAT and was in the top 10% - he's a bright kid.

Bubbles you may be right. He is fine at the moment, working as an HCA on a neurology ward and living it, going to do VSO in a few months. Maybe nursing would be a better option?

He won't be eligible for most medicine foundation years unless he meets clear widening-participation criteria (low participation neighbourhood, poorly-performing school, low household income, first generation into HE, caring responsibilities, etc.). There aren't any foundation years that just take students with lower A-level grades: they either take disadvantaged students with lower grades or students with good grades in the wrong subjects. There aren't many of the latter type of course left.

@BubbleBuddy - I've spoken to three second-year medical students in the past two days who are being treated for anxiety. There are just as many students with mental health conditions on medicine courses as on any other course. They have to take responsibility for managing their health but there's no reason why they can't thrive.

SirToby-yes I agree with you re the foundation course requirements-he doesn't qualify.

Dundee is very highly regarded for biomed. It is ranked at no 4 in the complete University Guide after Oxbridge and Imperial.

@ChiaraRimini - quite a lot of medical schools will accept resits - and if he missed a lot of school then extenuating circumstances might apply meaning even more would accept resits.

I understand he may not want to, but resitting A levels and reapplying is probably a more straightforward strategy than any transfer/graduate entry option?

Lala- yes I an coming round to the idea that resits may be a better option if he really wants to be a doctor. Need to have a long chat with him. It would mean pulling out of his VSO but that may be a minor thing in the scheme of things

Nursing could be a good option but obviously not as well paid ultimately as medicine. Plenty of scope for career progression, further study and some areas are fairly intellectually demanding with a fair amount of autonomy ie critical care It's even possible to become a nurse practitioner which demands another 2 years training.

One of my DDs has had anxiety. I can assure you she couldn’t possibly be a Dr when she had Anxiety. For those of you who think a bit of “treatment” gets you through this, think again. Sometimes she could not get out of the house! Sometimes she had to flee a situation. She was overcome.

I do not think successful medical students really suffer this degree of anxiety that absolutely puts the breaks on a normal life. If DC are anxious about exams and concerns about failing, that’s totally different. I can also assure you the NHS doesn’t help. DD had next to nothing. Mental health services are on their knees. If medical students are lucky enough to treated for anxiety, that’s great. If they are suffering as DD did, I’m amazed they are still able to function as students. Their treatment must be excellent and actually available! Anxiety in its full blown form really means life stops.

The OPs DC missed school. It is a concern that the life of a student medic might not be helpful to ongoing good health and it needs serious consideration. Help is not available to all when it’s needed. Far from it.

Have a look at the possibility of your DS becoming a Physician Associate.

I think the only place you can do a physician associate course straight out of school is UCLan. Everywhere else you have to do another degree first. My knowledge could be out of date, though.

Update and advice request from you helpful folk.
I have said to DS that his best chance to get to medical school is to resit a levels. Last year (2019) he got A in politics, B in biology C in chemistry. Based on his GCSEs (7s and above) he could, with intensive revision, get to A in Chem and Biology.
However to apply for med school this year it would mean leaving his job as an HCA and sacking off his VSO place to revise for resits.
He is asking if it would be possible to reapply and do resits next year ie 2021. I'm not sure whether this would be acceptable to Med schools, does anyone know?

I believe most Med Schools do not accept resits...

Have a look on The Medic Portal website. They have a page which states each university’s A level resit policy (although cross check with each Uni website and maybe also call admissions to check it’s up to date info).

Unfortunately some have minimum requirements for the first a level sitting - ABB for instance so you’ll need to do some research, but there seems to be some that would be ok.

Exeter, Sheffield and Southampton at a glance might work but that’s just from a quick look! You may find your options are limited and there may also be timescales involved for resits but a quick call to admissions should clarify things. At the end of the day you can only apply to 4 anyway so if you’re limited that just makes your mind up for you about where to apply!!

Sorry also meant to say - when you speak to admissions, if there is a time limit for resits maybe the VSO place would count as a good reason for the university to be flexible? Like extenuating circumstances almost? So worth mentioning if they say that there is a 3 year cut off for A levels.

Honestly, I would get him to seriously reconsider his options. If he isn't shining at A level he will struggle to shine at uni (speaking from experience, not trying to be hairsh). I got ABB in chemistry, biology & maths.

I didn't get the grades to apply for medicine so opted for biomedical sciences at a very good university which had the option to transfer to medicine after 1st year. I actually turned down a place on a biomedical course at a different (what I thought of as a "lesser") university who actually offered an accredited biomedical science degree and that is probably my biggest regret.

Of almost 400 students, only 1 managed to transfer to medicine after the first year (and you need to get a first to even be considered). At the end of the course, I'd say approx 20 have gone on to study dentistry/medicine but none of these via GEM. I did actually get a place to study medicine in Durham after graduating but I couldn't bear the thought of a further 5 years at uni (then however many years of training) and wanted to get in to work.

To get back to the point of accredited vs unaccredited, I left with a biomedical science degree specialising in pharmacology but unable to actually apply for a biomedical science role without undergoing another 18 months coursework to have my degree accredited. Had I taken the accredited course I would have had a lot more job opportunities as there are lots of biomedical scientists in every hospital lab. I'm very fortunate to have ended up with a very degree specific job but it's very niche and there are only 20 people across the UK who can do my job.

Would he consider pharmacy? That would be my advice to someone in his position (aside from nursing obviously). You even say he went through a spell of not wanting to go to university at all, and in the kindest way possible, that won't equal the drive required to sit through 8 years of university doing 2 degrees back to back.

DD's biomed degree is accredited by the biological society. She initially looked at IBMS accredited biomed degrees, but realised that it would restrict her to only working for the NHS. The universities we looked at that weren't IBMS accredited were at pains to tell us that a biological society accreditation offered far more opportunities than IBMS accredited degrees.

Obviously only time will tell.

Would he consider nursing instead?

Thanks all. I agree with the misgivings raised-I am far from sure medicine is the right option for him! He wants a job with patient contact so nursing may be a better option then biomedical science.
He has decided not to go for resits this year and will do his VSO. I actually wonder if he may be better suited to an international development job TBH.

I would also suggest that if he's keen to do something with patient contact that he look at the NHS scientist training programme www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/news/nhs-scientist-training-programme-2020-recruitment

It's postgraduate entry, so something to consider if he does do a science degree. You get paid whilst training and pay upon qualifying is higher than entry level nursing and there are opportunities to progress. The downside is that by the time you include the first degree, it's about the same length as medical school!