Oxbridge 2020 (8th thread)

[DadDadDad]

A thread to continue discussing entry to Oxbridge in October 2020 (less than nine months away ). All welcome, although this obviously will be of most interest to those with DS or DD holding an offer, and wanting to find a bit of support.

All too soon, 13 August will come over the horizon. Until then, ask questions... share experiences... discuss news and stats... write a poem... (we did briefly have some poetry on a previous thread).

With huge thanks to @HugoSpritz and predecessors for previous threads.

Gin what is your lads preferred insurance?

@OhYouBadBadKitten do you mean what is his next choice after Warwick and Cambridge? It will be either UCL or LSE. Why?

I remember worrying about the risk of dd not getting through step. I think that Warwick is such a good insurance place, that it's a risk worth taking. It does take a leap of faith that made me nervous though.

@sandybayley I'm not saying I think the STEP requirements are unfair, I get that Cambridge need to separate these candidates somehow. The A* in Further Maths seems to be almost a given for many of them - my DS would need it for 4 of his 5 offers.

But it's a shame that he is judged 'Cambridge material' enough to get an offer and yet deterred from firming the offer by the STEP requirements. Maybe it's just a way they weed out the lower income families who can't afford paid tutoring/support to prepare for these extra exams. A bit like the Cambridge offer letter that asked my son to think carefully about the £10k per year cost of university, on top of tuition fees. None of his other four offers implied that he might not be able to afford them and that also has made him feel odd about it all.

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These are completely fab esp if you substitute pistachios for macadamia nuts.

No college allocation here yet sandy, just asked DD to check.

GinWorksForMe I've not come across that exhortation before but might it be a blanket thing, not targeted? It's entirely possible that neither myself or the DC have read the small text carefully.

I'm sure it's not a way of weeding out students who can't afford paid tutoring or support - cambridge are trying to increase access. I know it feels unfair, the whole education system is unfair.

@GinWorksForMe - I don't suppose you're near any large independents that could provide some support? I know DS1'school provides support to local state school students prepping for STEP.

@OhYouBadBadKitten did your daughter work through the online STEP
stuff then take the exams with no additional teaching/support? V keen to hear from anyone (esp from a state school) who has done this successfully. DS is in touch with other applicants online and they all seem to be attending STEP preparation classes at their schools which is putting him off a bit. If he does firm the Cambridge offer and sit STEP, he will have to take it in an unfamiliar environment too, and will have to get there and back for three separate exams each costing £64 including invigilation too...in the middle of his other A levels. Wish we had known all of this in advance so hope maybe others applying in future read this so they can put the money aside!

I don't mind where my son ends up as long as he's happy so honestly not 'worried' about it. I am interested in the whole process though. I can see Cambridge are trying to widen access but maybe there is more to be done if they genuinely want those with the best maths brains regardless of background.

Ill pm you in the morning :)

@GinWorksForMe sometimes it doesn't feel like it, but there are many students sitting STEP who are the only ones in their school. It can be a very lonely experience (I remember it well!).

I have also taught in schools which did support STEP (which I was sometimes responsible). IME 95% of what contributed to how well a student did was their own effort - it is hard to "teach STEP". There are many more resources available than there use to be, including solutions to 1996-2018 (I think) freely available from MEI, and also mark schemes for 2013-2019 available.

I will PM you as well!

What about the cost though Pallando? Also the disruption of having to get to a centre which is not your own school in the middle of A levels? Why would any school not be able to have one of its students sit STEP without going elsewhere? It sounds pretty heavy going - I can see completely understand the reservations on the part of GinWorksForMe's DS

@goodbyestranger my suggestion about the cost is that the college making the offer should be contacted to see if they can assist with that.

All schools/colleges are able to run STEP if they are registered to be an centre for Cambridge admissions tests - I don't think it is hard to do so!(and there is no cost) If a school or college already runs BMAT/MAT/TMUA then they will be a registered centre and can run STEP.

There is no reason why a school cannot run STEP - the only reason that they are not as far as I can see is reluctance to fill in a form! There will almost certainly be other A-levels going on at the time so extra costs of invigilation for STEP will be minimal for the school!

Yes on the school's ability to run STEP (and you say plenty of applicants are the only ones from their school) I completely agree. I can't see any good or valid reason for not allowing a current student to sit STEP at his or her school.

@GinWorksForMe you could also try contacting the Cambridge Admissions Office to see if they can help with costs? www.cao.cam.ac.uk/ The widening participation contacts are

Widening Participation Team
T 01223 766460
E [email protected]

@GinWorksForMe, Re the finances form; DD got a Financial Guarantee form with her Offer letter,we also had minor kittens til we worked out the College fee doesnt apply to UK students! Asking for proof of funding seems perfectly reasonable to me; agree it can seem scary to the DC but all they are asking for is information you are always going to need to have sorted with your DC anyway. If not eligible for full maintenance loan who is making up the shortfall was the gist for DD. Maybe the wording seemed a bit intimidating in your DS’s letter.
Really sorry about the STEP stress, hope the great advice here helps x

dd has found that cambridge is not an expensive place to be a student at all compared to friends elsewhere. They have a bursary scheme that all students are considered for without having to apply. She has received a bursary and a grant for a separate thing through her college.

@GinWorksForMe. I'd second the 'cheaper than you might expect' point. Shorter terms at Cambridge, although they put pressure on organisational skills, also mean more time for holiday work.

I'm afraid I don't know anyone directly who has self taught STEP, but DS was pointed at Advanced Questions in Core Mathematics which seems like a very friendly online resource, even if the questions aren't. There seems to also be a fair amount of peer group support on The Student Room although YMMV depending on the year.

Thanks so much for all the kind messages and support and advice and inclusivity, so much appreciated.

I think it's safe to say that it's 90% certain DS will decline the Cambridge offer, and after a long talk with him I have to say I understand why. While it's a shame in some ways not to do something if you can, I think that his happiness is worth everything and will lead to success wherever he ends up and I love him more than life itself and want him to feel comfortable and confident with his choices so that he can thrive when he leaves us for this next step.

In truth I don't think working through STEP preparation independently is the problem. What @pallando says rings true for DS - he loves the Maths and problem solving and so on and I believe in my heart that if he sits STEP he will get what Cambridge want, although there is no way of knowing. He will no doubt keep doing the STEP stuff for fun even if he doesn't enter the exams. He really does love Maths!

It's hard to explain but he is 18, without the life perspective we have, and he just feels like too much of an outsider at this final hurdle. As a first generation university applicant, it will be alien enough for him if he gets to Warwick or London. I think he's resilient and independent -in fact I know he is - but the absolute feeling of aloneness he has at the idea of doing STEP by himself and more generally at Cambridge and its unfamiliar language and customs is not to be sniffed at or easily overcome it seems. Oh well, tant pis as @goodbyestranger would say. (Did I use it right?!)

Anyway I will hang around on here until he presses the button on making his firm/insurance choices which will be after the Cambridge offer holder day next week at the earliest.

Happy to report that mocks are going well here, hope they are for your DC too.

Also @gizmo YMMV???

I seem to need everything explained, sorry!! I'm thinking you might something vary?!

GinWorksForMe there are lots of well of DC at Oxford and Cambridge, sure - but please try to impress on your DS that intelligence is the real leveller. It genuinely is and students make friendships right across the educational and income spectrum. It would be a crying shame for your DS to turn down his opportunity. His school should step up to offering to process STEP so that he doesn't need to flog off elsewhere in the middle of his other exams and Cambridge will almost certainly bear the cost, if the school fails to. The one thing that those of us on MN with DC who've been to Oxbridge can confirm is that once there, disposable income levels and accents and size of house etc don't matter to proper friendships and to lose the chance of that sort of education on a mistaken basis would be such a massive waste. Please get him to think again anyhow.

Ha, yes, sorry @GinWorksForMe. Is a bit of tech-y speak: Your Mileage May Vary.

Can I just say I was really moved by what you just wrote? It's so lovely to hear a parent who just wants the best for their kid, completely without their own prejudices getting in the way...

I suspect your DS will do very well wherever he goes, although the personality you have described is exactly the sort of individual that every university (and particularly Cambridge) wants to teach.

Aargh. Well off is what I meant to type.

Oh bugger, just realised that last post reads like a snidey dig. I did not mean to imply that I'm reading a lot of posts on here from parents who have their own prejudices. Not at all...

And actually I agree with @goodbyestranger. All universities come with a culture shock at first, the useful thing about Cambridge is that the common thread of genuine academic interest smooths over a lot of differences that probably stick out more at other institutions.

Hmm, a bit of a curveball on the insurance offer.

DS was fairly certain it would be Durham, but has just received his college allocation (anyone else?) - it's for South College, which hasn't even been built yet. It's not what he's imagined, and he's not keen.

Edinburgh and Exeter now in the running.