Applying for Geography or HSPS at Cambridge - any experiences please?

[silverstorms]

Could I ask if anyone might have any advice on applying for either of these courses please? DS is currently in L6. No predicted grades as yet (only a term in obviously). He’s studying Economics, Geography and Spanish, plus he’s doing an EPQ in a subject relevant to Economics / Geography / Politics.

We were quite surprised by his GCSE results last year as he got ten grade 9s. So, feeling a bit buoyed up by this, he had a foray onto the Cambridge website to look at course options.

There are two courses he might be interested in - HSPS or Geography. He would be interested in Economics too, but has not taken A-level maths which seems to be a requirement for Economics at degree level.

My question is - it states on the course info pages that for HSPS there are 7 applicants for every place, while for Geography, it’s 3 for every place. Does this mean, the odds of a place are better if you apply for Geography? Or am I missing something? Both courses require A*AA (which is the main issue of course - we realise it’s far more tricky to get top grades at A-level than GCSE)!

Also, how on earth do you decide what college to apply for? Are some colleges better for either of these courses (or easier to get into)?

Obviously, we’re at an very early stage in this process, so if anyone has any advice or insight they could share, it would be most appreciated.

He’s also looked at LSE and there’s some great courses there which seem easy to combine with a language too. Obviously, we’ll be looking at other unis too!

Many thanks.

Anecdotally/observationally geography is less competitive.

Geography courses can vary a lot so it is important he looks at course content. The LSE one is orientated towards human geography, so great if, say, he is interested in a career in urban planning or policy, but less good if his primary interest is physical geography/geology.

My daughter did HSPS - and found out that she really enjoyed anthropology.

It’s the Human Geog side he’s more interested in, Needmoresleep. Thanks - we do need to look at that.

Albert - yes, I imagine DS would enjoy anthropology options too. HSPS looks like quite a unique course in that there’s so much cross-over between subject areas. DS is really enjoying Economics so far and would have taken Politics too if there was an option for a fourth A-level at his school. No doubt this is why HSPS is so popular! There’s nothing like it at Oxford, as far as I can tell? Would anyone know if any other unis that might offer similar?

Have a DD currently reading Geography - the beauty of the Cambridge course is the even split between Human & Physical in first year - specialisation comes later. Perfect for her - however a dedicated Human Geographer might find that frustrating (the Physical side is very maths/ science-based).

As mentioned above, Geography courses vary in structure between Unis - some are pure Human (York, for example, if I remember rightly), some throw in data analytics & work placements, others like Cam offer breadth in first/ second year. So many opportunities across great unis, they are spoilt for choice - but they do need to research carefully what's right for them.

No question from the stats that HSPS is more competitive on a pure application numbers basis, however, don't (I'm sure you wouldn't) let this sway you. Cambridge is looking for dedicated Geographers & if his heart lies with a broader degree, he should go for that - best of luck to him!

Thanks so much, Jaguar. That’s very helpful indeed. It’s all quite daunting at the outset. As U said, LSE has many joint-honour programmes inc the option to add a language on and do a work placement abroad. But we live in London and I think he’s quite keen to have a change to be honest,

As I said, not U!

Combined Social Sciences at Durham might also interest him? www.dur.ac.uk/chss/brief/

How about UCLs Liberal Arts Degree with a Societies pathway. UCL also offers very good study abroad options.

(Note this Liberal Arts degree is much closer to the US model than many offered at UK universities, including the possibility of "majoring" in science subjects.)

DD has an application in for LSE Geography, but will probably not hear back until March. She loves human geography and wants to combine it with a language option.

DD has a friend who started HSPS in September but has changed to Politics and History. Ibz Mo (a studytuber) started HSPS and has made lots of videos about his experience. He actually changed course too by the end of his degree.

We have a family friend who does Geography at Cambridge. He is enjoying the course but intends to swap to Management for his third year. I think this is a career move rather than falling out of love with Geography.

Cambridge offers masterclasses for Y12 students to experience studying at Cambridge and the admissions process. I could not see one for HSPS or Geography but they may run them later in the year.
www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/events/masterclasses

Re choice of college - it's very much a matter of personal taste. There's lots of info online, and of course open days. In terms of whether any are easier to get into - some may get more applications than others, but the pooling system means it shouldn't make a difference to whether he gets an offer, just that it might be at a different college from the one he applied to. The interactive graph generator on the admissions statistics page shows how many acceptances there are at each college (click the bars for the numbers)

www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/apply/statistics

I may be wrong about this, but I think geography as a discrete subject doesn't seem to be so much of a thing outside of the U.K. so it may be that it attracts fewer overseas students?

Thank you so much for all this. MN is more useful than the school!

I’ve had a look at UCL courses - there’s a lot! I guess if he went to UCL or LSE, he could live at home for the first year and save some money? I’ve heard great things about Durham too.

What I like about the LSE and UCL courses is that its possible to combine with a language and have a year abroad. I’m sure they’re super-competitive entry though.

Bristol looks interesting too.

He loves Geography, but more the human aspects and how these overlap with politics, economics, sociology etc. He’s more naturally inclined towards the humanities than STEM, though he did get his act together with sciences and maths for GCSE in the end. So I guess we’re looking for some flexible combo of humanities subjects. He can’t do Economics as a single honours as he hasn’t done maths A-level. I’m sure he could manage the physical geography side of things, but not sure if he would find it as interesting? He loves languages too, so it would be good to keep the Spanish going too if possible.

Thanks so much for all the info and for taking the time to reply. I will watch the videos too!

Geog seems to let you specialise year 2 in camb. Agree with jaguar- only apply for Geog if a passion but yes, fewer applicants.

Any college is fine, 25% are pooled I think.

Warwick do great politics courses and combinations of. Don't think you need A level politics. I know Exeter do politics\economics combined course. DDs friends and our family at both unis doing these courses and love them.

Dds close friends do geog and HSPS and they all really enjoy their courses at cambridge colleges. She enjoys another humanities field.

Good luck

Yes the stats say HSPS is more competitive than Geography, but you don't know the quality of the applicant pool, you just know that more apply for HSPS than for Geography.

As pp suggested, international students LOVE HSPS but very few are attracted to Geography.

I have found that a well-planned gap year does wonders for helping students be clear on course choice AND enhances their application.

OP,

Another one to have a look at is Oxford Human Sciences

www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/courses-listing/human-sciences

I was surprised to see that maths and science are not required.

Unfortunately Oxford PPL does require maths. Psychology is a bit like economics in that regard.

Needmoresleep - thank you. I did see that one and it looks like an interesting course actually, but maybe a bit too science-orientated. It’s more focusing on genetics and animal behaviours, statistics etc. I’m also surprised you don’t need maths or biology for that one.

Most places seem to let you do politics with a language, without having done politics A-level. So that could be an option and he could do a year abroad which he would love.

Having said this, he is still drawn towards the HSPS course. It looks as if quite a few students change course title on this as they go through, once they begin to discover their specialisms. And I take the point that more applicants may not mean higher quality. I guess to some extent you can’t worry about everyone else - just do your best and see where it gets you.

Also thanks so much for the info on the Masterclasses. That’s so helpful.

Hi OP - forgot to mention before - Fitz have run a Yr 12 Geography conference for the past few years - end of June for 1 day - definitely worth a look if he's considering that route.

And I absolutely agree, don't worry about numbers, just focus on the course right for him & see what comes of it.

Very best of luck!

One of my sons is reading egography at Bristol (and his sister read the same subject and is a lawyer in London now - she converted law after graduating - they both read/are reading for a BSc in geography, not BA). My son also had economics as an A level like your son. His third subject was history (and he was one of the last years to do AS in lower sixth so had AS music too). I don't knnow about Cambridge but he is really enjoying the Bristol Bsc. There is quite a bit of maths in the statistics. he was quite good at maths GCSE so it has not been a problem but it is certainly harder for him than for some who did science and/or maths A levels but he must be coping as he is getting good marks as far as I know.

My twins (both at Bristol) didn't pick London universities because we live in outer London and they just wanted a change but there are certainly very good geography courses in London too.

It sounds like your son will have a good chance at Cambridge so probably he would want Durham or Bristol or a London one as his second choice. My twins and my older daughter both chose Bristol over Durham even though I am from the NE and my father and uncle went to Durham simply because it is a bit further fromw here we live than Bristol and it has worked out fine. None of my 5 children tried Oxbridge however so I cannot comment on that. They either could not be bothered to try or were sure they would not get in. (3 have graduated and 2 - the twins - are still at university - Bristol).

Good luck.

Has he thought about doing a Social Policy degree? That's pretty much a combination of economics and human geography, and there are great courses at I think either UCL or LSE, Bristol, Bath etc.

Is your DS at a UK state school? If so he might find the 2 week Eton college summer school useful (www.etoncollege.com/USSWebsite.aspx). I know in the Economics and Politics course they looked at the Cambridge HSPS degree. There was also a geography course. Cost heavily subsidised. DD loved it. Really helped her firm up where she wanted to apply.

That summer school does sound great, Clerk, but he’s at an independent, so he’s probably not eligible.

Taco - I looked at the LSE courses and he’d probably love doing nearly all of them, to be honest! I’m sure its super-competitive there though, as they would have a lot of overseas applicants, I’d imagine. Plus I’m not sure if there would be any point him living in student accommodation for LSE as we live within 5 miles of there and I’d like him to have more of a “campus experience” if possible. But fantastic courses, definitely. I’ve also been looking at Bristol Xenia - looks really good too.

Thanks everyone! So many decisions...

The normal pattern for London DC studying in London is to spend first year in hall and then for them to see home as a better option by second or third years. Both LSE and UCL guarantee accommodation to first years wherever they live. (We are just over a mile away from LSE and that was not a problem.)

More important is the value your DS places on course over lifestyle, and then how relatively attractive he finds places like Oxbridge, London or Bristol. London universities offer quite a different student experience. This suited DS. He was very course oriented and the LSE course was a great fit. (He took economics, where the range of options was vast, and where his eventual focus was quite different to the interests he started with.) He is also a self starter who enjoyed the international, urban feel, with next to no interest in punting or May Balls.

That said, the low student satisfaction rates for London Universities suggest that not everyone will be as happy as DS was.

LSE has a great series of public lectures. It may be worth your DS signing up for some. It will help give him a feel for the place.

Yes Ill do that - thanks for that info.

I just wonder if the halls for LSE are miles out and if he’s actually end up with a longer commute back and forth? Is it a good social life for them?

He loves London obviously, but as long as he’s got friends, I think he’d be fine anywhere, as long as it’s not too remote.

The other thing is, he’s a bass singer and would like to keep this up by taking part in that side of uni life, eg. in the choirs or musicals, etc. There has been talk of a few from his school possibly trying for choral scholarships etc, but not sure if this will actually pan out. I wonder if LSE do that kind of thing, or if there’s any theatre?

Yes applications per place are relevant I think. My DC applied for a Cambridge course that had 15 applications per place (didn't get in). One of his friends got in having chosen a course due to the small numbers of applicants.

Silverstorms, LSE list their accomodation, and intercollegiate halls, on their website. Most if not all, are within walking distance. Living in central London is quite different to living five miles out, so in that sense he will have moved.

LSE is a small University, with a very definite specialisation, so will not have anything like the depth of extra curricular activities as Cambridge, nor the diversity of students taking different subjects. It is different - not better, not worse. Sort of why I asked whether his primary focus was the course or the University experience.

That said, there are lots of Universities in London so lots of opportunities. DS, especially in his first term when he was still finding his feet, used to join friends at Imperial and use their sports facilities. You are in the centre of a huge city, and indeed in the centre of the theatre district of a huge city, so lots of opportunities beyond University. When at school DD used to play for a good sports team, and had she gone to London she would have continued.

One odd advantage is that because London students are so scattered, the campus tends to be the centre of social activities. In contrast at Bristol, DD's first year accomodation was some way from the University and many students never set foot in the Student Union, with social life tending to happen in City bars and clubs rather than at the University. DS, at LSE, was active in at least three societies, and played in a casual football league. I don't think DD at Bristol belongs to any society, indeed she is relatively unusual in playing for a University sports team.

As well as looking at the public lecture schedule, you and your son could visit the Economist Bookshop at LSE and then spend some time in one of the University coffee shops, or even the legendary Wrights Cafe, and watch the students milling around and interacting. It might give you a sense of how urban is too urban.