Medicine 2021

[Millylovespuddles]

Hi all
It looks like there’s no medicine 2021 entry thread yet, so it might be an idea to get the ball rolling.
My DD is getting stuck into her A level course, doing well so far, but I’m guessing we parents could do with some mutual support and advice from parents who’ve been here before.

Toby my point about the cost being staggering is obviously from the perspective of the payee. £35k is vast for the vast majority of ordinary families. Only the extremely well off will be able to afford them and presumably the vast majority of places will be taken by those who failed to secure a place in a funded school. Not great.

Durham medical school didn't last long (not that that was a private venture).

Mumsneedwine it wasn't too cookie a response. There was clearly an internal contradiction in what you said: thus, if the NHS GMC approved doctors been sufficiently competent (is not missed whatever it was they missed) then you wouldn't have needed to go private. Bottom line is, they missed something in spite of your position that GMC registration and NHS employment is not merely necessary but sufficient. I'm afraid I be probably been unfortunate enough to encounter more poor quality doctors than you that's all, that's why I believe their universal competence shouldn't be over romanticised (and indeed why training etc should be top notch).

If you can understand that through all the autocorrects!

Although fair to say the vast number of vasts were all mine.

Check when Lincoln medical school actual building is expected to be ready. Certainly not built yet.

Thank you Sir Toby for such a clear explanation of how the process works.

Points re Lincoln v Nottingham noted, thank you.

UCLan in Preston are now taking a few UK students but only from the North West. Most of their medical students are international fee paying students.

Is anyone else trying to get their DC to look at other options, partly as the 5th choice on their UCAS form but also just in case things don't go to plan with their exams?

A university reasonably local to us (1 hour away, so not next door!) has an open day in a few weeks time which I think would be a good plan B for DD as they guarantee an interview for their graduate medicine course if you study one of their 5 medical related courses and if you're on for a 2.1/1st. I appreciate that this is 7 years of study, but it's only a year longer than intercalating and they would have a BSc too.

DD won't entertain the idea that she needs a plan B, not because she's so self assured in getting the grades and/or getting offers, but more because she doesn't want to do anything else.

What does everyone else do about the 5th option?

DS didn't put a fifth option down.

To be fair, he was a strong applicant.

I was at a Biomed offer holders day at Bham last week and they guarantee that they will consider(interview) 10 students who graduate with at least a 2:1 for their Medical degree (I think 7 Biomed graduates were offered places at their Med school this year).

However, they did state that the majority of DC who fail to get into Med school and do a Biomed course tend to not want to venture into Medicine afterward and continue to pursue the Biomed options after graduation. My DD is not interested in pursuing medicine but I thought it worth posting. The admissions team did state they were inundated with applications from DC who had applied as the 5th option (I assume they can tell from the application dates).

The personal statement is probably a bit of a giveaway too oneteen.

My usual advice would be to make the fifth choice (or Clearing choice, if they miss the grades and only decide at that point to do another degree) something that will be of use to them if they don't succeed in getting a place on a graduate-entry medicine course. I have a bit of a prejudice against biomedical sciences as a back-up, as hardly anyone who does it as a last-ditch alternative to medicine would actually consider working as a NHS biomedical scientist and there are better choices if they want to follow a research or industrial development career. For the latter, courses like cell & molecular biology, genetics, pharmacology, biochemistry, medicinal chemistry, pharmaceutical sciences or biotechnology are likely to be preferable.

On the other hand, they do need to be confident that their first degree will be acceptable as a qualification for graduate-entry medicine. Many medical courses are flexible on what students' first degrees are in, albeit there might be additional requirements like GAMSAT, but some do specify a list of acceptable first degrees or stipulate ulhelpful criteria like "a science degree".

Thanks all, it's difficult to know how much to encourage DD to look at 'other options'. I don't want her to think that we don't have faith in her, but the competition is tough and grade requirements are so rigid.

@oneteen Interesting that you mentioned that Birmingham mention this at offer holders day for Biomed, it must be quite soul destroying knowing that you're lecturing to people who don't really want to be there.

@SirTobyBelch I'm not sure Biomed would be DDs choice of 'plan B'. The uni that I wanted her to visit offers Medical Pharmacology, Applied Medical Sciences, Medical Biochemistry, Population Health and Medical Sciences and Medical Genetics as a 'pathway' onto their graduate Medicine course.

Will see what DD decides, it's her life after all!

Plan B is often a year out and retake if needed. Graduate medicine is stupidly competitive (45 applicants per place), and very expensive as no loans for 2nd degrees. But looking at other courses is worth doing just to see what else is out there and reinforce the choice of medicine.

@lionfish we are in a similar position - in reality I think DD will take a gap year if she’s unsuccessful, and will try and fix whatever went wrong and reapply.

She will more than likely put down a 5th choice just in case she has a huge change of heart (unlikely but you never know) about taking the gap year and reapplying.

She had mentioned Pharmacology and Biochemistry - but lots more to look into I think.

I guess the 5th choice would be really important after a gap year as if the same happened again and no medical school offer, that would be time to perhaps cut your losses and commit to another career path.

Tricky isn’t it!!

Graduate medicine is stupidly competitive (45 applicants per place), and very expensive as no loans for 2nd degrees.

If you're on an actual graduate entry programme (i.e. a 4-year course [or 5 years at Imperial] that is only open to graduates) you do get a partial tuition fee loan in the first year and then the NHS pays your fees for the remaining years. Maintenance bursaries/loans work a bit differently: see this web page as an example.

Doing a standard-entry programme as a graduate is another teapot of prawns: there's no financial support for that before 5th year.

Anyone have any thoughts on pros and cons of Imperial vs UCL? Some seem to feel the workload at UCL is slightly more manageable (!) and that it has more of a campus feel, although in London whereas Imperial is seen by some as more prestigious (not my choice of words, just what I've gleaned from TSR , not passing judgement and I do understand that F1 placements are blind and they all become doctors wherever they train) - and they have a slightly different approach to intercalation.

Did I read earlier in the thread that Imperial have dropped dissection?

And are accommodation costs as ridiculously high in London as some say or is the trade off a huge commute?

Sorry SirToby, yes there are some loans available for graduate medicine. But they are not big enough to live off, unlike undergraduate loans (just, if on maximum). So for DD it would have been impossible to fund as we wouldn't have enough to make up the gap. It's something to be aware of.

I'd expect the work load of the both Imperial and UCL to be much the same over the 5 years as they all have to cover the same stuff. Both are fab places so maybe chose by the style of teaching. Different ways suit different people ?

Thanks mumsneedwine - are they very different? I thought both were traditional as opposed to PBL for example but maybe I have that wrong - so many things to research!

And yes, accommodation costs in London are hideous. And still might have to travel a bit. If funding is tight I'd suggest looking outside London (it's my home so pains me to say this). It's so much cheaper elsewhere. And I know it's not always agreed, but becoming a doctor happens wherever you go to University. Better to have some spare income for that drinking and snogging 😂🥴

Traditional can mean different things so definitely check the most up to date course details. Very few places do purely PBL, lots do CBL (case based learning), which seems to mean they study the heart for example and do anatomy, dissection/prosecution, lectures, physiology etc on that. And then move onto something else. But courses change regularly so don't listen to me as my DD is a 2nd year and so much has changed in some places since she applied. Open days are your best source of correct info.

I never had to pay for snogging mumsneedwine :) Drink yes (sometimes), snogging never. And I never asked anyone to pay me either.

Imperial is all science bods though whereas UCL has the advantage of mixing it up with arts and humanities. But each to their own.

Ah but you need to go out to meet the people to snog (unless they somehow find their way to your house by other means that I didn't know about). And I often found the snogging went with the drinking, but that may have just been me 😊😊
London is expensive. Unfortunately this has meant many kids are priced out of the Unis there. But they are trying to entice them back with bursaries and awards so worth looking into if eligible as I know someone who gets a substantial amount each year (got 3 A stars and is a bit of a genius).

Ha ha, thank you both, (and Sir Toby) - your generosity with your time answering questions is very much appreciated.

On the Medicine 2020, a poster has said her DC has two offers - one is AA A A and one AAA. I’m assuming the first will be for Oxbridge.
My question is, with a DD who is considering Cambridge, is it better to keep 4 A-levels to A2 level? Are those doing 4 being asked for more demanding offers than those offering 3? Would she be regarded equally if she drops one?
I feel she is capable of achieving excellent results in 4, but feel she would have a better work/life/social balance by sticking to 3.
It’s so hard to judge these things!