too many people having extra time

[IrmaFayLear]

I didn't quite know where to post this, so I've tried here...

Dd came home in some distress as it turns out that 15 out of 20 people in one of her A Level classes are having extra time for exams.

Dd is upset that it now seems that rather than levelling the playing field for people who genuinely need assistance, a minority are being penalised. Furthermore some of these extra-time people are in "competition" with dd in that they are highly ambitious A* people.

Dd said that one girl told her that "slow processing" is the new watchword and they paid for a private assessment. Dd said that this girl has no processing problems when it comes to quick-fire banter on social media and it's never been mentioned before.

If the exams are deemed too short, then surely give everyone 25% extra time? As it is with this particular subject, it's a case of some people being given 25% less time.

I had a quick google and a)there are masses of sites telling you how to get extra time and how to "fail" the tests and b) Ofqual has said that it is getting out of hand.

Blimey there’s a lot of new names on the HE forum tonight, who are getting a bit irate.
I originally asked the OP if it was a private school but she replied that is was a ‘leafy’ state so it does seem that certain schools (or parents) are more proactive than others across the board.
Whatever the cause, this is most definitely another occasion where pupils whose parents are pro-active gain advantages over similar pupils whose parents are not.
And to go back to the OP, yes I would be putout if I was in the minority getting the set amount of time. I would be annoyed as well.

I'm rather perplexed at this. I'm in NI, ds has asd/adhd and has a statement with 1:1 assistance and needs extra time, but can't get it according to the SENCO as the Ed Psych did not do a full assessment. Here a private assessment cannot be used for educational purposes. I'm almost inclined to say that I don't believe it.

That's very odd. My ds has SEN including adhd, tics and difficulty with time management and organising himself. He always runs out of time in exams which is a shame as he knows the answers but has to read it several times before writing, he also gets distracted a lot, including distraction with tics.

He was turned down for extra time as the SEN co-ordinator said he has done well in past exams , so didn't feel it was needed. He is predicted above 7's in all his GCSE subjects.

I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking extra time equals low intelliegence pupils. The two have nothing to do with each other.

How about teaching your DD to have a bit more compassion. Have you any idea how hard it is to access that extra time
It's really not that hard to be honest, especially in an area where parents pass on what to say to GPs to get notes for separate settings, there's money to be made on private assessments etc.

It's also quite surprising how many people have zero concerns about SEND needs or support or anything until part way through GCSEs and then all of a sudden the child with a reading age 3 years above their chronological age apparently has the words moving all over the page, or the child who needs to work on their exam technique suddenly becomes apparently unable to do things theyve demonstrated in y9/early 10.

Meanwhile trying to get appropriate support and provision for those with longstanding SEND needs that affect them all the way through school is an absolute nightmare and poor parents and schools have to battle a terrible system.

I agree Zanda, and re the 'slow processing ' I shouldnt have said not as bright as the next person, it's more a case of not as bright as their parents think they should be.
There will be lots of parents who are quite happy with their DCs attainment and don't consider getting them tested.

Lola you are incredibly ignorant, I can't even be arse to explain why, as your whole diatribe there smacks of prejudice not able to get through to you anyway, but you've clearly never dealt with medics & kids fir much more than a grazed knee. If you did, you'd know how bloody ridiculous your statement is 🙄

Why did the Ed Pysch not do a full report, @sniffingthewax? The test for SpLD is quite specialised and also requires the school and parents to complete pre-forms. It can take hours to complete. Here (England) a lot of Ed Psychs won't do them for that reason. There are also specialised SpLD assessors.

I suspect it's down to funding but I've rarely seen a school pay for a full report here.

Fan the EP didn't do a full assessment simply because of time constraints. Ds was in the unusual position of starting school for the first time in Y6 and entered without a statement. Due to his complex medical/educational needs he was 'fast tracked' through the process within the first month. The EP just did a skills test to see roughly where he was sitting in comparison to his peer cohort. Apparently the full assessment is needed to warrant extra time. I can't understand posters saying its up to the GP, here you can bring of the letters from specialists but it is the EP's opinion that counts. It can't be any EP either, it must be the one attached to the LA.

Interesting how different the two systems are, @sniffingthewax. I do hope you get the additional help your son needs soon.

Lola you are incredibly ignorant, I can't even be arse to explain why, as your whole diatribe there smacks of prejudice not able to get through to you anyway, but you've clearly never dealt with medics & kids fir much more than a grazed knee. If you did, you'd know how bloody ridiculous your statement is
Oh ok then.
In which case first hand experience of people passing on tips to game the system whilst schools and parents battle to get support for those who really need it is must be nonsense too.

I love it when posters on MN decide that any experience that isn't their own must categorically be wrong in every way and the poster doesn't have a clue so requires personal attacks.

Do you fee your child needs extra time?
If not then why does this bother you or your daughter.

I’ve worked in SEN for 26 years and organised Access Arrangements in exams in a sixth form college for around a decade; it’s really simple - private assessments for Specific Learning Difficulties will always find a Specific Learning Difficulty of some kind. If they didn’t, the Private Assessor would go out of business. You’re a parent - you take your child to be assessed and pay around £500 - and the outcome shows they have no SpLD but instead, they’re just not very bright. Or struggling for no identifiable reason. How do you feel?Slow Processing is the easiest one to evidence. None of this has anything to do with private or state schooling. Yes, there are too many candidates being allowed extra time but until JCQ regs change this is likely to continue.

I think if you looked at the parents who pay for these assessments they would be the wealthy sharp elbowed middle classes that exist all the way through my kids schooling

Or they are the ones desperate to get some support and understanding for their children’s difficulties to enable them to function and gain a semblance of self esteem.

come
Or as anyone who has spent any length of time in a range of schools would be able to tell you, both groups exist.

In my experience, getting high needs funding, appropriate support pre EHCP, getting EHCPs, accessible wider services is a nightmare for many families.

If you've got enough money and talk in the right circles then private assessments or swapping tips etc is not entirely unusual.

Of course I've already been branded ignorant for saying both groups exist so probably should be careful

I'm an a-level teacher and I agree with the OP, it's getting out of hand. Some of the classes I teach have over 75% of students with access arrangements in exams. The 'evidence' collected from learning support is mostly from a form the class teacher fills in. It has all sorts of leading questions on there. The students will also complete a written exercise, most know how to complete this in an 'appropriate' way. It is ridiculous as many students genuinely need the extra support but it's being completely blurred by others cheating the system.

Multiple anecdotes don't equal data, or words to that effect. Some people are seeing high percentages of students getting extra time, some think the system is being gamed. 20 students in one class is a small sample size so statistically speaking it is perfectly reasonable that this both a valid number and is not representative of the nation.

Maybe these days we're getting better at assessing the ways people learn and regurgitate/apply learning? Is that so bad, allowing people a chance to preform at their best? Not everyone will do better with more time, imagine if a student had all day to complete an exam paper, would it actually get any better for being stared at for hours?

I love it when posters on MN decide that any experience that isn't their own must categorically be wrong in every way and the poster doesn't have a clue so requires personal attacks.

Lola your mistake wasn't in saying that they do it, I'm sure some are cheeky enough, but that they can hoodwink doctors etc into gaining extra time. GP not involved at all & I'm pretty sure the EP is experienced enough to spot it a mile off, people can try & talk all they like, but it doesn't mean it will work. ESPECIALLY when provision in general is so badly underfunded 🤷‍♀️

imagine if a student had all day to complete an exam paper, would it actually get any better for being stared at for hours?

Spot on Ven, no amount of extra time will help if they are just not mentally clever enough to do it. It's a huge help for a clever kid held back by a disability though

My DS has SLI, ADHD and sensory issues and has needed extra time and many other adjustments throughout school and university, not only for exams but also for lectures, note taking essay writing.

I would be really annoyed if I thought that wholly neurotypical people with no special requirements were gaming the system as this would potentially threaten access for those who actually need the adjustments.

However, I do not understand those who say it is easy to game the system. In my experience multiple expert reports were needed at several stages of DS's education. And to the lecturer who said it is easy to get extre time at university - just ask- I don't know where she works, but it certainly was not the case at Cambridge. It had to be part of the initial DSA recommendation.

I would also say, however, that specific learning difficulties are much more common than generally realised, and frequently missed. Often how many affected children there are in a class depends how hard you look.

DD v dyslexic but v bright. She has a massive vocabulary but if she encounters a new word she needs to do text to speech or ask me (she can't grasp phonetics for some inexplicable reason....she's less than 10th percentile for phonetic blending)

She gets extra time. Is that fair? Every piece of homework takes her twice as long as anyone else. She's smarter than most. So should she have time deducted? Should she be let off if SPaG? Should she have extra time to read the questions and formulate an answer? How many DC GENUINELY run out of time during exams? How many without a SpLD would gain extra marks by being given extra time??

DD couldn't read until she was 9 and she doesn't begrudge anyone else for being given extra time.

She would love to not be dyslexic and have a far easier road in life so....

OP - why does your DD feel she's so hard done by? Or is it you thinking that DD is somehow disadvantaged and that everyone else is pushing themselves in front of your precious one?

You don't want a lecture on hidden disabilities op yet you have made sweeping assumptions and generalisations about who should qualify for extra time in your daughters year based upon their social media activity!

Mines - 100% right. I am not one to engage with MN rucks (as those on the Oxbridge and Uni 2020 threads know), but this one 'got my goat'.

Lola your mistake wasn't in saying that they do it, I'm sure some are cheeky enough, but that they can hoodwink doctors etc into gaining extra time. GP not involved at all & I'm pretty sure the EP is experienced enough to spot it a mile off, people can try & talk all they like, but it doesn't mean it will work. ESPECIALLY when provision in general is so badly underfunded
Except pushing for separate rooms, people DO go to the GP and students and parents have told us this is what they're doing, and because the services are overstretched we've had notes through to support.
Equally, getting extra time doesn't require an EdPsch assessment either.
Add in the private market of assessment as well.

imagine if a student had all day to complete an exam paper, would it actually get any better for being stared at for hours?
Obviously not.
But imagine two students of comparable ability sitting a challenging exam, one has worked at their exam technique and the other suddenly pushes for access arrangements in y11 after there being zero concerns through school from home or school. Are we seriously going to suggest that the person who has the extra time awarded doesn't have an advantage over the person who has the standard time?

And before more silly personal insults are thrown, I'm entirely supportive of student having extra time, where needed and entirely supportive of families battling a rubbish system.

I should say that some of the changes recently are positive as there's a much bigger move towards showing the normal way of working for the candidate, which is great for those who've got needs that need supporting through school etc (e.g. I've got KS3 students who have separate settings for assessment, word processors, scribes, readers, extra time etc).
I just happen to have reservations about high fliers through school, zero concerns, claiming that despite 11 years of schooling suddenly they don't get the questions, that age 15 the words suddenly start to move, they need to be in a room on their own because they find the hall scary, and so on