Recommendations for 4 Yr Chemistry course

[TheChemicalMothers]

Hi!
Does anyone have knowledge or experience if Chemistry MSci courses? With a year in industry?

Ds has just finished 6th form with A, A, A in Chemistry, Maths and Physics and is about to start applying for Chemistry courses starting 2020.

Seems keen on Bristol, Sheffield, Nottingham, Manchester.

Any significant difference in reputation for future employers? Quality of course? Likelihood of good industry placements? Will he get in without an A*?

Accommodation. costs would be taken into consideration but not a vetoing factor.

Thank you!

Anyone?

Sorry, not a chemistry expert, but is there a reason why he's taking a year out? You'd need to check that the institutions are happy with a gap year as it's not always the best idea for science/maths courses.

DD is off this year. She liked the ones at Bath and York especially. York is a bit different as year in industry is in Year 4. I think you could do 4 years at both these places and get an MChem, but you also did uni work during your year in industry.

I know someone doing chemistry at York. She chose it specifically because it was the 4th year that was spent in industry. Two reasons:

1. the quality of the placements was apparently better, because employers knew were getting people who had already studied for three years rather than two. Presumably related to that, a very high proportion of students were offered permanent jobs by the employer they had been with in their 4th year.

2. it meant that she could spend the first three years with friends doing 3 year degrees, rather than missing their last year and having to come back for a 4th year when lots of friends had already left.

She is really enjoying it and I'm sure would recommend it.

Thank you FifthTime and Numbers, that’s interesting. He hasn’t looked at York.

Dangling; yes there is an important reason, not connected to any form of gap year hijnks. Bit late now, anyway!

You'd need to check that the institutions are happy with a gap year as it's not always the best idea for science/maths courses

This is something I heard a lot 25 years ago when I applied. In practice I never found a uni who actually cared about gap years- it seemed more of an urban myth from parents worried kids wouldn’t go back to uni!

In my 20 years in science i’ve not come across it since either. I know many undergrads and postgrads who took years out at various points and it’s never been a consideration. In some cases an interesting year out is seen as positive- my phd interview i was asked about my post a level year as the prof was interested in that area.

DD had a gap year and is going to university next week to study biomedical sciences. When doing open days last autumn she asked about the gap year and none of the universities (all RG) were concerned about her gap year. She also has strong A levels.

Thank you Gin and BlueBlue.

Liverpool Uni is good for chemistry too

For a Chemistry degree I would check the number of hours teaching and laboratory time.
Whether you would need to study additional subjects or not in the first year?
Is the main focus of the university teaching or research?
The university should be able to provide info about numbers of students that found jobs and those who went onto further study etc.
In addition to the year in industry what sort of uni does your ds prefer Bristol and Manchester are city centre unis whereas Nottingham and York are campuses. (Not sure about Sheffield).

Thank you!
catndogslife “Is the main focus of the university teaching or research?”
Which is better? Aren’t RG unis broadly research unis?

“Is the main focus of the university teaching or research?”
Which is better? Aren’t RG unis broadly research unis?
Yes being an RG uni is mostly about research. However some unis may have won awards for teaching and talking to current students may give an idea about how good the teaching actually is and how much they expect students to self study.
The which is better depends on what would suit your dc the best tbh.

Aren't RG unis broadly research unis?

Don’t get hung up on the RG thing.

I went to a non-RG uni. It has one of the best science programmes in Europe, if not the world. My year employment was 100% and I was head hunted to a prestigious postgrad course purely because I went to that Uni.

I can only assume they didn’t join RG as they bring in plenty of funding on merit and don’t need RG.

Probably better ways to assess quality is a) graduate employment- including the breakdown of what they go on to. Also look at their grant funding, generally the bigger the grant the better the research.

However some unis may have won awards for teaching and talking to current students may give an idea about how good the teaching actually is and how much they expect students to self study.
The which is better depends on what would suit your dc the best tbh

And just to add to this- we had not so much “teaching”, as taught how to self study. This made a huge, huge difference to me, i never got on with the spoon feeding and memorising of gcse and a’level. Once I got to uni and was taught how to research and prepare for myself, and how to read and interpret studies and data, completely changed my approach. Conversely we had a few high achievers at a’level who either struggled or even dropped out as they were used to being given the information, then learning it for exams. One of the reasons the graduates were highly sought, they came out thinking for themselves.

It is probably really tough figuring out which courses teach like that before you get there though....

My DS is just starting 4th year of a BSc at Liverpool. He has just completed a placement year out, but in a specialised field unrelated to Chemistry (allowed for a bachelors degree, but not masters)

What shocked us, however, when he was applying for Placements two years ago, was how little help the uni gave (just pointed them to websites that all students in the country can access!) and how hard it was to even get interviews.

As well as the speciality placement he accepted, he also applied for some in Chemistry and did get some interviews, but most of his friends had given up looking by Christmas due to lack of success. These were kids with good A levels, some of whom got a first this summer.

He said about 50 out of 100+ students in his year started applying for placement jobs, but he was one of only about 10 who were actually successful. 1 of his year got into Glaxo, none of the rest were even interviewed, similar with companies like AstraZeneca.

One of his school friends, doing Chemistry at Birmingham, also had no luck until the very end of the academic year (think he was offered something in the June/July). The problem with holding on for an offer that long, is that if they don’t get a placement, they need to sort accommodation for the following academic year, preferably earlier than June/July!!

So, my advice would be to research how many students do a placement each year at his chosen unis, and how much help do the faculty give them in getting those placements.

I remember going to the Liverpool open day with DS - there were slides about placements and how many different companies/countries they could go. They made it sound so easy to go to a big company or even abroad. But it’s not like that in reality unless the uni has links with particular companies/industries.

Bristol has a good reputation for chemistry and was taking students through clearing with AAA. Others my DC considered were Loughborough and Aston. The latter because they have lots of experience with placement students and I understand that all their sandwich students got a place in industry last year.

Hi TheChemicalMothers
Our DS went back to Sheffield yesterday to start MChem year 2.
It's a city, not a campus Uni but the accommodation is walking distance from the teaching buildings and is in a nice part of the city( we don't live there now but I was born and brought up there).
The course is pretty full on teaching and standard/level wise ( some stuff they do in yr 1 is on the yr2 syllabus in other Uni's( yes I do have the inside track).
The extra curricular things are very good and the tutorial support is good too.
He is trying for a placement for year 3 - this will involve some study/module work during the placement year as they all start year 4 together but the non placement students do different modules for full time study in year 3. I know that at L'boro for example the year in industry is incorporated but the course takes 5 years not 4 so there's no additional coursework in the year out. With AAA your DS will have no problem getting in and should be up there with the grades thro year 1. Worth an open day visit I'd say

Choose a uni with a solid history for placements.

York is a good one, Aston excellent.
Have a look at stats for students hired AFTER degree in relevant job. They are quite telling.

Sheffield and some of the other uni's don't have a real history of placements so it might be a bit more hit and miss

Generally the msc is 4 years without the year in industry, my friends dd is taking 5 years. Any research university will offer this but depends on what specialisms they are keen on and their grades. Ignore the prospectus grades they have all been admitting on lower grades, significant in some cases. Ps ignore the Russell group tag, some excellent research universities aren't in it for political/historical reasons - look at what they are teaching

If your DD will consider London, go for Imperial. 4 year course and she’ll spend most of her time in the lab. Not sure that the pastoral side of things is necessarily the best; you have to be robust to get the best out of Imperial.

DS1 is in U6th and currently looking at universities for Chemistry. His favourites are York, Durham and Nottingham. Others that came out well in today's Sunday Times rankings (for chemistry) are St Andrews, Warwick, Liverpool and Lancaster, Strathclyde and Nottingham Trent.

I think that they all offer MChem or BSc and, depending on performance, you can switch between them during the first couple of years of study. Good luck to your DC!

DD1 is studying NatSci at Cambridge and "only" got an A grade at A level. She didn't need more. She has done 2 years' Chemistry and the lack of A seems not to have caused her any issues. DD2 did get an A in Chemistry but Cambridge didn't make her an offer after her interview.

One of DD1's friends is studying Chemistry at Nottingham and is on a year in the USA. She is having a fantastic time and thoroughly recommends the course. Another friend is studying Chemistry at Oxford and finding it very hard work and not particularly enjoying it. Look at the content of the courses and destinations of recent graduates. Don't get hung up on RG - it's a self-serving group. I sound like a stuck record on this but I have direct experience with the local RG university and would urge my kids to work anywhere rather than study there.