How easy is it to swap course in the first few weeks of UNI?

[tommycockles]

DD is having second thoughts.
She is due to start in just over a week. It's not nerves, it's been like this since she applied.
She never knew what she wanted to study so picked one of her A level subjects. She is an all rounder and got 3 As and offers from Russell groups. The place is at a Russell Uni.
No specific career plans.

She definitely, definitely wants to go to University. No doubts. Deferral not an option now as her accommodation has been paid for in full. And she is desperate for the whole uni experience.

It would be a sideways sort of swap like a humanities subject to another humanities. But different departments.
Not a total change like swapping physics for art.

I think she should at least try her chosen course.

Has anyone been in any sort of similar situation?

If I ruled the world (cue Harry Secombe) no student would be permitted to go straight from school to university not recommended in the case of maths btw.

trewser

I had to stand at a students inquest and speak to their parents afterwards. They were my student and I had responsibility for their pastoral care. It was devastating for me and their flatmates that they did what they did.

Every year, students end their lives and it has been proven on more than one occasion that this rediculous notion of what uni should be like not matching reality has contributed to that.

Absurd is one thing it most certainly is not. Have a word with yourself for being so flippant about something so serious and be grateful you have never had to go through what I and other lecturers and students have had to go through.

Of course universities advertise The Experience, they want the money. The one I was at has become less flippant in their attitude of everything being about The Experience. They learnt the hard way. University is NOT about The Experience and neither is it only about study. It is about balance.

Yes, my friends son killed himself while at uni because he was petrified that he was failing. She is starting a charity to publicise awareness of student mental pressure

Don't want to use him as a way to win an argument but it's more common than people think, which i would have thought you'd be aware of?

It is about balance

Of course.

not recommended in the case of maths btw.

This is not correct - many students in maths do take a gap year.

Even at the highest tariff universities there are many students who have just drifted into university and would have benefitted from taking some time out, to decide what subject they really wanted to study.

If she doesnt show passion for the other subject and/or if she does not have a clear idea of what she wants to do , what would changing degrees bring? She ll be able to get in the same graduate placements regardless of whether she did history or English. How about she sticks to her original choice?

Or is there anything greatly different between both courses (e.g. year abroad when doing a language)?

I changed uni and course at the end of the first semester. There was a place for me and some of the modules overlap from uni to uni and course to course. I carried over about 70%? credit and took extra modules in the second semester to make up the difference. As an aside out of 70 students three of us got firsts - all of us over 24. I would recommend time out for sure. I worked abroad for a year and did crap jobs at home for a year.

The point of uni is study not The Curse of The Experience (as we called it, shortened to The Experience).

DD’s ex BF went to university because he couldn’t wait to leave home, and wanted the university “experience”. He even got an Oxbridge offer, but under performed in his A levels. He was rejected from his second choice and ended up going through clearing.

He enjoyed the university “experience” to the extent of missing all his early morning lectures and seminars, failed one module at Christmas and barely scraped a pass in his “best” subject in the end of year exams (the one he received the Oxbridge offer on).
As a tax payer I admit to feeling a little resentful of subsidising these students to party for three/four years with very little to show for it.

University is NOT about The Experience and neither is it only about study. It is about balance.

Absolutely this ^^

I believe that some universities don’t like maths students taking gap years. I’m pretty sure that Cambridge doesn’t approve.

trewser this person ended their life because they assumed they'd get the degree after not attending, or doing the work and just chasing The Experience, joining as many clubs as possible, down the pub etc. I was called as theyd seen me hours before and had been demanding I passed them into the second term on lower grades than necessary and I couldn't I wasn't allowed (I wasn't as blunt as I'm being here about it). It was a horrendous day I'll never forget.

All of it based on what they believed uni was - that was our conversation them going on about their mates who were partying all the time and could stay - theyd no concept that students can exaggerate their social life or that different courses had different pass requirements.

Yes students end their life because of pressure and we had that as well. But that's not the only reason. Sometimes it genuinely is pressure to socialise as well as study and loss of balance.

We interviewed all our students to ensue they were prepared for the pressures of the course e.g. Full time meant full time, registers were taken, attendence monitored and there was a minimum pass of a 2:1 to go onto the second term and year, resits were rare in exceptional circumstances only but we still had people assuming it didn't apply to them because of the myth that only 40% was needed. The degree was a professional one hence the interviews/higher pass rates.

I'm not explaining myself very well, but it's true there are students who simply cannot manage to balance the social aspect with the course they have chosen because they've concentrated instead on the social aspects and not the course.

All suicides are devastating.
None are absurd.

It may not be coming over when I type.
But I did state in my second post she wanted an academic challenge. She has fortunately sailed through her GCSEs and As. It's not that she wants to go for a 24 party at all.

I think her worry is she doesn't have a passion. I worry about that too but I did not have a passion at that age. I went to Uni about 30 years ago. I picked my favourite A level
It could just have easily been either of the other two.
I don't know if going to uni was easier then? I don't think my experiences are much help to her as it was so long ago.

So, at 18 you don't have a career plan and you are pretty bright, what do you do?

I didn't have a career plan. I had an idea of the area I wanted to go into and then looked for courses to do with that. As it turned out by the end I didn't want to go into it at all and ended up doing a conversion degree.

Does she have a vague idea of what she wants to do? No one is saying she must know what she wants to do for the rest of her life, but a vague idea would be helpful to her. Get her through any struggles she may have with the work - uni is very different to school.

I think people, I include myself in this, saw the comment about her being desperate for the experience and that's what caused the concern.

If she wants to change then she can ask. But she needs to be aware that she may not be able to do so if she doesn't have the qualifications or the course is full. Would she then defer? Or stick with her current choice? I'm not saying that would happen but her reaction could be telling.

I apologise for derailing your thread slightly and if I've misunderstood, your op states she's desperate for the experience and that's what was a red flag for me. She really needs some sort of interest or passion in the subject to get her through.

Since I taught a-levels have changed so I don't know how different the leap is between a-levels and uni or the experience. I don't see why you can't share with her your experiences. It's different now in terms of the numbers of people with a degree and there's a lot of competition for grad schemes and year out placements which there weren't historically but I'm sure you can offer her something in terms of what you went through yourself.

Again, apologies if I misunderstood.

Don't want to use him as a way to win an argument but it's more common than people think, which i would have thought you'd be aware of?

No wonder most of us academics stay away from this section of MN - the contempt with which our actual experience is treated by some posters (using a friend's dead son to "win" an argument FFS) is unpleasant.

It's a pity, because we have useful experience & knowledge which might help parents with some of the problems raised in this section. At times, we ave things to say that you may not wish to hear, but surely accurate knowledge is better than hearsay or prejudice?

So, at 18 you don't have a career plan and you are pretty bright, what do you do?

I was 16 when I finished A Levels. I didn't necessarily know what job I wanted (except to be a university lecturer, but that seemed impossible at that point!).

BUT

I did know what I loved studying, and finding out about, and writing about, and thinking about, and communicating what I was finding out & thinking to others. It's what I've ended up teaching and researching as a university lecturer.

She needs to think about what she really enjoys thinking about, reading about, and talking about, 8 hours a day, 5 day a week. If she had NO OTHER pressures, what would it be?

The job/career will come later. Indeed, at the moment, I think we're educating young people for jobs that don't even exist yet.

mouthyharpy

Totally agree with her needing to think about what she enjoys.

It was possible at my uni and people did right through the first year. I had no idea what to study either, so picked a subject I liked butbit was joint honours so more variety. all has been good. I have an interesting career in that sector. She might be able to do that: add joint honours?

As said before, get her to phone Admissions and see what the situation is. If they haven't got a space on the course she wants, see if they've got any other suggestions (for a similar course). That way, she'll know what her options are.

If this isn't right, might be worth checkin with UCAS if she can change to another uni. If she knows what she wants to study, there may be another course thats right for her.

I wasn't the one that brought teen suicide up in the first place.

Perhaps if academics stopped posting doom amd gloom and worst case scenarios then we'd listen a bit more? Yes students shouldn't spend all their time partying, but socialising and enjoying new or old interests,like sports, or choir, or acting is mist definitely part of the uni experience! I did agree that there needs to be a balance.

I would call the university and find out if there's a place on the course she wants to move to. If there's no space then that's her answer. If there is a space then perhaps it's time for further discussion with her.

She really has to want to study her subject. Three years of study is a long time when you're 18.

I went to uni in a similar situation to your daughter. I had no idea what career I wanted and wasn't sure about my course type. After a few weeks at uni it was clear the course I had chosen wasn't for me and I asked to change. The change was possible as in the first few weeks people tend to to drop out and leave spaces free. If she wants to chabge she must decide quickly though as after the first couple of weeks the course director may decide that she has missed too much to catch up. For me changing course didn't really work. I ended up completing a course I wasn't really interested in just for the sake of having a degree and having the uni experience and I really regret that now. My lack of interest in the course gave me notivational issues and I really had to push myself to graduate with a good degree and I also suffered from mental health issues stemming from the feelings of unhappiness with my course and life path. In the end I graduated with a good degree from a Russell group university but I don't feel like the university experience benefited me in any way. I finished university still not knowing what kind of career I wanted but with mountains of debt hanging over me. Now I'm a bit older and wiser and know what I want to do I find myself in a situation where I am unable to do it because you can't get student finance for a second degree and I am unable to self finance. Graduate schemes are very competitive so you shouldn't just rely on a degree from a good university to guarantee you a place. The best advice I could give to anyone who is having doubts is not to go to university. Higher education institutions are not going to disappear and there will always be an opportunity to study later in life once your daughter has a clear idea of what she wants to do. When I expressed doubts about going to uni I was always told I should just go because its about the experience, its what hugh achievers do, its good to have any degree etc. But in my experience none of that has turned out to be true.

Tommycockles, has your daughter called the University today?

When I went to Cardiff you did three subjects in your first year in humanities. So if for example you'd decided to study History you might do French and Politics too.

Where is she going - it could be a similar system, so although she'd chosen one subject she can do two others, and then choose properly at the end of her first year. I think Liverpool is similar.

In case I wasn't clear in my example, although you'd put history on your UCAS form, you might end up doing Politics in the end for your 2nd and 3rd years. It was very open.

Op, I think you're right.

I had a friend who was studying a science subject but got very involved in theatre production at uni and went off to work in stage management. She still had her degree and was able to do a post grad course and now has a completely different career.

Being at uni and meeting lots of different people and getting involved in societies is a really good way to broaden your outlook.

So, at 18 you don't have a career plan and you are pretty bright, what do you do? I think it's not at all uncommon to have no idea what you want to do at 18 - at 18 there are so many jobs you haven't even thought of and, as MouthyHarpy quite rightly pointed out, jobs that don't even exist at the moment. Your dd is fortunate in that she is bright and she is not just a one trick pony. It was always going to be difficult for her to narrow her options. My dd has solved a similar dilemma by going for dual honours (she's also thinking of adding an optional language on the side - it won't be part of her degree, but it's something her uni offers). If she's doing a humanities subject then it will be the class of her degree that matters more than the subject. I think people who are being sneery about the idea of The Experience of university are being harsh. It doesn't have to mean drinking and partying (though of course it can mean that), it's also a bridge between school and leaving home properly, a chance to live independently and to have the time and facilities to explore all kinds of interests with like-minded people of your own age which in itself can help you think about what you want to do next.

She sounds exactly like me. Good all-rounder with a number of interests, but not one that stands out as a passion.

I did a joint honours subject and it was only until my final year that I wish I had just done one of the subjects. I came out with a good 2:1, moved abroad and worked/travelled for a bit. I accidentally fell into the career I am in now at 30 and, while I’m good at it and it pays well, I still have no idea what I want to do when I “grow up”.

A number of my friends changed subjects within the first couple of weeks, it seemed easier to do it earlier on if there was space. She should have a personal tutor who she can discuss with. Another option is to take a number of optional modules in the other subject that she likes, and see if a switch is possible after first year. This way she has tried the subject before making that switch.