Anyone in NI here struggling/feeling left out?

[narkedinNI]

Name changed for this as I don't want to out my location on other threads.

DD is Year 13 in a grammar school here (NI). We are a FSM family as I am a FT carer for my other dc with complex disabilities. The school have strongly but subtly recommended that the pupils should not go to either UU or QUB, something to do with entry requirements being over inflated because places are capped here but not in the rest of the UK.

DD's friends seem to be quite wealthy and have booked open days in the coming months for several universities in England and Scotland. I've just checked for Durham and due to flight times dd would have to stay 2 nights to get one full day in Durham. It's going to cost about £350 just for her. If she puts down 3 non NI choices that (in theory) would be up to £1k just to visit each one for the day. The same goes for taster days/residentials. Durham offer a travel bursary of up to £100 but there is still the other £200. None of the other unis she is thinking of offer travel bursaries. Wider participation all talks about pupils from England.

Obviously that is life, not everyone can afford it but I just feel that DD is hugely disadvantaged by our circumstances. Is anyone else in the same boat? Is it wise to apply to somewhere that you haven't visited?

Just having a moan really, any advice appreciated.

I think it's a shame that students are being advised against their local university - terrible actually. But if it's true that NI students are being set a higher bar than English /Scottish students - that's really unfair.

As regards reputation, Queen's is a well-regarded university for most subjects.

Gosh you are right, it’s only TCD in Dublin. Because it’s on offer at Cork I had assumed all the NUI colleges offered it.

Pierre it does feel very unfair.

I didn't even account for having to go for interviews 😰 How does that work? Do they give you a date/time or do you get to choose? Flights seem cheapest on a Wednesday. I suppose we should wait and see where she gets an offer and visit on the day of the interview.

I am sorry for the situation. My practical suggestions are:

1. visit your local university choices regardless (and don’t be put off applying since you get 5 choices). Just visiting any university helps to consider what you want and don’t want. That helps to inform your views of online information about other universities which you can’t visit before choosing.
2. if you are offered interviews as part of the selection process, email them to say that actually the cost of attending an interview is a barrier and is there an alternative eg FaceTime/Skype or any assistance with travel or costs.
3. There are extreme examples of campus v city universities eg Warwick v UCL but there are more compromise options. For example, Leeds or Birmingham offer campus style with a location next to or close by the city.
4. Don’t get flummoxed by what are in fact often minuscule differences between universities regarding league table positions (which is a whole different debate). If we are talking of the likes of Birmingham v Leeds v Durham v Manchester v York etc etc it really makes very little difference whether one is first or 20th one year.
5. if you can’t visit then don’t be afraid for your daughter to email the department and ask them direct questions which matter to her about the course. For one thing, it will tell you which departments really are interested to respond to potential students. Good luck.

DustyLaw thanks a lot for that, it's very useful. I would never have thought about asking if a Skype interview is possible.

Also, as you are on FSM, the universities might have subsidised transport for your DD. Ask them.

I agree that it’s not necessary to visit every university but if you could manage it, what about a quick holiday to visit possible cities next year? With grandparents? Just to see where the universities are and if she likes the city itself. In terms of a job, every university is good!

In Scotland, higher grades is the trade off for no fees. Can’t have everything it appears!

I certainly know that overseas applicants have had video interviews for years now. And some UK universities actually require pre-recorded video presentations as part of the selection process for certain courses rather than interview,. It has seemed to me that universities are now so much more sensitive to financial barriers that they would be wiling either to video or to stump up a bursary for an interview. It seemed not to occur to them in my day that cost was an issue. If they aren’t willing to be flexible or waive the interview requirement then it tells you some useful information anyway and shame on them and consider a complaint to the university! No excuse in this day and age for universities to allow financial inability to complete the selection procedure.to be a barrier. i will admit, it was useful for my children to visit some universities but in the end they chose the ones they didn’t visit until the offer holder day. As for me, it was the olden days and you were considered clued up if you had written to request a brochure. But visiting a university, any university, is helpful as it just provides some reference point.

My ds is heading into year 2 at Warwick.
We live in China and he did not attend any open days or visit anywhere. We narrowed down universities based on grades/course, then looked at location, campus or city, proximity to airport, sports facilities etc - things that were important to him and practical for us. Two years on from submitting the UCAS application and all fine!

I went to QUB many years ago, and the only other uni I visited was UU. I loved it. This was back in the days of full grant though.

Even if they go to an open day at the place they eventually study - there is no guarantee they'll like it, even if the open day felt good.

If you have limited capacity to do lots of open days, prioritise. We went with DS to 3 I think, and he went on his own with friends to 3 more by train. We wanted to go to his first and potential insurance choice, and we wanted him to try and visit both campus and city style so he can get some general feel for how they compare - which may have affected his choices overall.

Really dont worry.

Dentistry is competitive. She should read entry requirements and student room, and make a list of those most like to interview/accept her, and then choose from them, using criteria she has gleaned from a visit to the QUB open day and her personal preferences. She might also ask where previous dentistry students from her school have gone.

DD is studying medicine and went to open days at two local Universities which told her a little about what she did and did not want from her course, but did not visit any of her choices. She got to see three of them at interview. Essentially medicine, and I assume dentistry, is so competitive that many students simply want a place.

So save time and money and use it to research. Then if she gets an interview try to stay overnight to get a feel for the place.

FWIW DD says that a surprising number of her fellow students in Bristol are from NI.

And forget about RG etc. Medical and dentistry schools are often quite separate. QUB medical school is very long established and well regarded. The medicine course is seen as quite traditional, though I don't know if the same applies to dentistry. She should allow herself one long-shot, as long as she meets their criteria, and apply. It is a long course and a long time to be seperated from friends and family.

One further thought. If you are factoring in cost as part of your criteria, check for any bursaries the University might offer. Imperial and UCL can offer some very generous ones, which anecdotally can leave the student better off than some of their peers. Whilst a friend of DDs from a very low income background but on a heavily loaded course managed fine in Bristol with the help of a bursary and without needing to take a part time job. More affluent places also offer more part time/casual employment opportunities. Though this is offset by high living costs.

Mine didn’t go on any university open days.

My daughters doing dentistry at Newcastle. Since you have to be interviewed I would advise maybe visiting just one ( Leeds was the most useful I thought) to get an idea of how it all works, what they're looking for etc. Especially important if you dobt come from a dentistry background like my daughter. Woukd Liverpool be any easier to get to?

Thank you all for your replies, they have been very helpful. I think I was having a bit of a wobble after the info evening (where it seemed to be a given that you visit loads of universities) and then on the medicine thread where there was talk of residentials and taster days. Obviously there being a sea between us means that travel will be harder/more expensive and I'll just have to make it clear to the school and dd that it isn't possible to visit lots.

RedHelen I thought about taking the car/ferry to Liverpool over Oct half term and visiting a few but the prices are very high: £600 for the crossing alone. I'll maybe think ahead and try for February. Needmoresleep thanks for the heads up re the bursaries, the school didn't mention that either

Really, unless she is exceptional she needs to apply to the places who are most likely to interview her. I assume they use UKCAT for dentistry as well as for medicine. If they do, there is no point looking at anywhere till you know her score.

Some rely on UKCAT at lot, so good places to apply if you get a high score, but not if she wont get past the initial filter. Others dont. Most medical schools offer tours on interview days. It is better to do it then as the numbers are smaller (DD got very put off by one open day full of ambitious dads wanting their daughters to be medics and dominating the questions. Hard to persuade a 17 year old that the reality would be different) and will seem more real as you are that much closer to getting a place. In practice applicant to place ratios at QUB are much lower than some other places. Before they changed their application process Bristol medicine was about 17 to 1 (with a similar school warning not to bother to apply). From memory QUB was about 2.5 to 1, but clearly tougher for local students.

One of DDs personal criteria, along with wanting to be in a city and where the medical students could integrate into normal student life, was she wanted a relatively easy journey home. Might cheaper and regular flights or ferries be a hood starting point? DD had quite a tough first year, though is very happy now. It was important she could get home for a weekend when she really needed to.

And yes. Good London Universities are worried about their inability to attract British students from outside the SE. Imperial is particularly generous.

The big difference is that most courses don't interview. Medicine and dentistry do. The schools advice is too general.

Ds recently took himself off to Belfast for the weekend by public transport, he wanted to go on the game of thrones tour. He went by bus from Glasgow, very straightforward, he's only 18 and not very streetwise but managed it ( and paid for it himself so it can't have been dear). Could your daughter at least make it to Glasgow and Edinburgh open days? Maybe even on her own, Glasgow uni in particular is very well connected by public transport.

Many moons ago, I did the Belfast to Glasgow Uni trek regularly via bus/ferry.

Here is the link to the current service.

hannoncoach.com/belfast-to-glasgow-with-hannon-coach/

Looks like £58 return for a foot passenger, which is very similar to what I paid in the nineties.

If you are going for a look on a non termtime date, some unis rent out student accommodation during the holidays which is another way to see some accommodation!

When I went to uni, my parents had zero extra money, Glasgow in particular can be a cheap place to live on a limited budget.

I now live in Edinburgh and both cities are different but great.

The Irish government have already brought in a law treating all UK students as home students for fees after Brexit so Dublin and Cork could be options. Open days for a bus fare

It is true there is an excess of demand versus supply of Uni places in NI. The result of this is that there are NI students studying subjects all over the Uk and rest of Ireland. If your daughter succeeds in gaining a dentistry place at any Uk & Irish Uni, she will find many fellow students from home.

One year, my student flat had an Erasmus dental student who was studying at Cork. She spoke highly of the course, but of course this was a lifetime ago. So cast your net as wide as possible and do consider the dental schools in Dublin/Cork. They may be easier and cheaper to visit, jump in the car?

I wish your daughter much luck with her application.

£600 for the Ireland to UK ferry? Blimey.

Can you do dentistry in Manchester or Bristol? I was wondering if you could combine a trip to Liverpool and Manchester, or to Bristol and Cardiff (and maybe apply to Glasgow too, even if you don't visit?)

The Irish government have already brought in a law treating all UK students as home students for fees after Brexit when you say UK do you mean UK or did you mean NI?

I studied in Cardiff and in my second year I shared a house with two dentistry students, one from NI, one from ROI. Cardiff is a lovely city, definitely worth considering.

@berlinbabylon

All UK students will be treated as home students in Ireland post Brexit. Not just NI students.

www.independent.ie/business/brexit/government-gives-uk-students-commitment-on-paying-irish-fees-37887949.html

Not being treated as home students but as EU students.