Daughter feels like a failure with a 2.1

[redcapblue]

My dd finished her first year at Oxford. She studies english. She got a 2.1, and was 2 marks away from a distinction (first) She got 68 and needed 68.5 (overall) for a first and to become a scholar.

She is sobbing away and feels the world has ended as she worked so hard for it. How do I get through to her that a high 2.1 is still amazing?

A 2.1 is amazing! (And at Oxford!)
I'd be over the moon with that result! She should be absolutely chuffed with herself. I'm sorry she feels that way.

The actual mark for a 1st is 70 but students achieving 68.5 or above will be compensated to the next band. Therefore the cut off is absolute and as it's an average, it's a reflection of her performance over the year. I know she is disappointed but the academic advice regarding developing her curiosity for her studies is paramount. She does need to develop resilience and whilst I'm sure she's feeling her disappointment, learn to move on and understand why she can do next year. Her tutor can assist with this as well. I hope she can forgive herself and enjoy her summer - she is blessed to be an Oxford undergrad.

Yes, resilience is an important part of academic life (as well as life in general) - those of us who do this as a job have to deal with constant rejection (for grant applications, for example) and horribly scathing peer reviews of our journal submissions, etc. And, tough as it is, it’s what makes our work stronger in the long term.

Yes it is only first year results, and no they do not count for anything at Oxford.

At oxford students who get a first in 1st year results are called “scholars” and they get to wear a special gown to future examinations, marking themselves out. They often get given a few hundred pounds reward. They get special dinners and drink receptions, depending on the college.

This is not the first academic “failure”/disappointment she has had, but this year she really gave it her best, and her tutors thought she was able to get a first, which pushed gave her even more drive.

Sorry she's so upset redcapblue but she's running a serious risk of making herself extremely unhappy over the next two years in pursuit of first. Does she have a particular career plan yet, for which she thinks a first is essential? She's just got a seriously good average but her approach to academic work would give me cause for great concern if she's still upset in a week or so's time.

Well now the once tive is there for her to do it next year.

If she had achieved it do you think she would have been able to cope with maintaining that level given her apparent current distress. Imagine having that target of wearing her special garb only not to maintain it and have it taken away and presumably everyone would see!

Now she still has something to aim for but she needs to toughen up a bit. (Sorry to be so harsh)

Once tive = incentive

My view is that a first is definitely only worth getting if it comes without having to give it your all. The gown and the dinners are very superficial compared to a university life where everything is stripped away apart from academic work. Perhaps you're overstating how driven she was but it may well be that she could drive herself into the ground between now and finals and still just miss a first. By relaxing and saying that's probably not worth it she may actually give herself a better chance of a first.

Is she at a very academic college or is this pressure coming from within herself?

OP

I used to have a ppt presentation I used with adult students who were often disappointed with results. I'm supply so I wasn't there at the start of the course but I often got stuck with marking and picking up the pieces when someone had left.

The first slide gives an assignment of, "draw a cat".

The second slide has two pictures, one is a crude drawing of a cat made with MS 'paint' the other picture was the Mona Lisa.

Then I would ask which was the better picture?

Which would get higher marks?

This leads to a discussion of doing what the assignment says. The Mona Lisa isn't a drawing and doesn't feature a cat so in this context it does not march the assignment and doesn't get a score. On its own it is a wonderful example of Da Vinci's work, but that's not the marking criteria.

I then had other slides with a drawing of lots of cats (you don't get any more marks for drawing more than one), a photograph of a cat (it's not a drawing so scores zero).

This is what your dd has to remember, she has worked hard but somehow she has not fulfilled the criteria for a distinction. It does not reflect on her work ethic or abilities.

This is an opportunity to learn, to discuss with tutors what could have raised the mark, what did she do that did not get credit because it was irrelevant.

Hopefully she has some feedback alsong side her grade.

She's done very well, and she just needs to take the feedback she's been given and try as hard as possible to learn from it. IME one of the common things that differentiates first class work from good second class work is the student's understanding of exactly what's being asked for. Some bright students have never really had to work to understand how to write an excellent essay. It's just come to them. Also IME, students rarely make good use of the support available. Some do, but many don't notice there are study skills sessions or library research events, or just plain opportunities to ask the lecturer another question. Again, taking up these things can make a difference.

I do agree on the whole that she needs to calm down, though. I'd be worried at a student reacting like this.

Oh bless her.

I had the same thing happen to me. I was only two marks off a first and to be honest I’ve only really got over it now

It stings but you get over it.

OP, your dd needs to put the disappointment behind her and move on. First year marks do not count and she is overreacting.

Don’t tell her to calm down. Let her be disappointed, it feels like the most important thing in the world but it’s not and she’ll see that one day.
Telling her to calm down wont help.

Just let her get over it, she will.

Oh wait, it’s only her first year?

That’s ridiculous she should use t as an opportunity to work on where she was marked down.

In five years time, nobody is going to know or care what mark she got in her first year.

In five years after graduation nobody will care what her degree classification is.

It's not ridiculous. She wanted to be a Scholar and she's just missed the mark. At the moment, she needs someone to empathise with how disappointed she is.

By all means help her develop a sense of perspective when she's feeling a bit calmer. In the fullness of time I'm sure she'll realise that life goes on and she'll probably still get a brilliant degree. But I don't think saying "it doesn't matter, it's only your first year" will help her in the slightest right now. It matters to her and she will want to know that her family care that she's disappointed.

TBH, it is ridiculous. It is a slight worry that she's reacting like this. It's not a good idea to normalise it, IMO.

I would try and empathise but then move on. Don’t get hung up on what cannot be changed. My DD1 had to cope with various academic disappointments but resilience is so important. She probably didn’t give her all to anything academic and always had a full life at school, university and now at work. It makes her who she is. Obsessing about one aspect of life isn’t healthy. She will need to realise this or her future could be one long disappointment.

No doubt she equates hard work with success but at Oxford this isn’t enough at times. Some people are effortlessly brilliant! It’s best to adjust sooner and try and enjoy university. She still has a long way to go.

Try to get her thinking about a career and widen her interests. Then she won’t be so obsessed with marks and grades. There is more to life than being a scholar and she will see this. I also think happiness sometimes is available if you know and respect your academic level. Mostly there are people better then you! Even if it’s only one. It’s life. My DDs have accepted what they can aim for, realistically, and didn’t chase rainbows. I’m not saying settle for something lower than you could achieve and I certainly believe in aiming high but not if it makes you ill. Be relaxed, realistic and happy and then you actually achieve more.

She has done very well. What she will need for the world of work where things are arbitray and you can fail even if really good is to learn emotional robustness! My sons would be delighted with a 2/1 as was I.

Failure is what we learn from in life.
Also things don't work always that you put in x work (or conduct y into your toddler) and you get z result. Sometimes it works but sometimes not. Eg my son's economics teacher rightly said the A level A* is a bit unpredictable - even if you very good you often won't get one and it doesn't really matter.

She even said it can imply that the candidate is a one trick pony and didn't really "live" through their university years.

When DH is employing people he also prefers 2.1 and 2.2’s the anyone with a first tends to be a workaholic with too few skills. A 3rd is the opposite.

Oh dear me! When I went to uni I didnt even pass some of my exams in my first year LOL However I did end up with overall 1st class degree. I dont think the first year matters that much - for me it was all about having fun/partying/meeting new people etc etc. Its now been over 5 years since I graduated and believe me none of the employers ever notice my degree - all they care about is experience ;)

When DH is employing people he also prefers 2.1 and 2.2’s the anyone with a first tends to be a workaholic with too few skills.

That’s such a depressing attitude.

Well they do care about degrees for many areas of employment and a 2:2 won’t cut it now. I know a young man who took a year to find a job with a 2:2 in Maths from Cambridge. English with a 2:2 wouldn’t be great and definitely wouldn’t get the DD into many grad schemes. We can be confident though that this won’t be the case.

However some employers don’t care and have different criteria but experience can be in short supply if DC have gone to Oxbridge as they are not known for a year in industry type courses. That’s why I suggested thinking about career and getting work experience lined up for next year or volunteering during this vac. It will help DD to move on.

It’s also just been reported that some universities are handing out first class degrees at 45% of the cohort. In the likely event that not all of these classifications are truly first class, why would any employer not consider over 40% of a cohort? Clearly a very stupid recruitment policy which cannot possibly work in the best interests of the company, but follows outdated stereotypes decided by an individual and should be challenged. It’s a bit like saying no men will be considered. Why would you?

It’s also just been reported that some universities are handing out first class degrees at 45% of the cohort. In the likely event that not all of these classifications are truly first class, why would any employer not consider over 40% of a cohort? Clearly a very stupid recruitment policy which cannot possibly work in the best interests of the company, but follows outdated stereotypes decided by an individual and should be challenged. It’s a bit like saying no men will be considered. Why would you?

It's madness. With reduced entry requirements and significant grade inflation, I really question what sort of employer would favour someone with a 2:2 over someone with a first.