Can't do healthcare degree unless vaccinated

[titchy]

Interesting judgement from the OIA here:

www.oiahe.org.uk/resources-and-publications/case-summaries/fitness-to-practise-pi071901/

Essentially student was an anti-vaxxer so failed university's fitness to practice requirement and was not allowed to continue with healthcare programme. Although OIA partially found in student's favour because of the length of time Cardiff took to make the decision, but the decision was found to be a sound one.

If it was an actual condition of employment in all NHS roles with patient contact or in clinical areas, surely everyone would know about it?

Just like other restrictions, such as no colourblind pilots.

As it isn't 'known' I suspect there is no such policy. And unless there were genuine checks on all such staff (including people such as cleaners or admin and maintenance who go on wards) for full vax status, then it becomes considerable harder to exclude those with certain medical conditions. Because the policy wouid then be patchy not universal.

vaccinations have always been required for healthcare students and staff, as others have said, its mentioned often when applying and joining.

That doesn't quite answer the questions n if what happens to those who cannot have some vaccines for medical reasons. It's not a 'known' exclusion in the way that some others are.

Also, not having flu jab does not seem to lead to removal from post, as it shouid if no vax = no job. Because again, HCPs shouid be having it, but not all do, and I suspect that not all of those are declining on medical grounds (which are a potentially protected characteristic, whereas disinclination is not)

That doesn't quite answer the questions n if what happens to those who cannot have some vaccines for medical reasons. It's not a 'known' exclusion in the way that some others are.

That's a tricky question. Legally they could still work but would that be a good idea? If you are unvaccinated then surely you don't want to be exposed to a disease.

You may be expected to take more precautions eg barrier nursing, or not be able to work in certain areas eg a children's ward during a measles outbreak.

It's something that would have to be worked out with occupational health and I fear would limit your career depending when and where you wanted to work.

Thanks sashh

Occy Heath and individual risk assessed limitations sounds like a sensible policy.

If there were good levels of vaccination, so the vulnerable (including staff with medical conditions) were sufficiently protected, thus wouid be less of an issue.

Though I suppose ward visitors aren't asked about vax status, so hospitals are always going to pose an iatrogenic risk

I wish the same happened in schools and nurseries.

You choose not to vaccinate your kids, your choice. But stop sending them into mainstream schooling to share potentially fatal diseases.

If there were good levels of vaccination, so the vulnerable (including staff with medical conditions) were sufficiently protected, thus wouid be less of an issue.

True. Unfortunately for a staff when the unvaccinated child gets ill they can end up in hospital so the staff member is more at risk than in other occupations.

Although anti-vaxxer ideology is sheer idiocy I don't agree that unvaccinated kids should be excluded from school. All kids have a right to education and it would be very wrong to deny this to some kids (and leave their education in the hands of proven idiot parents).

You could use tax incentives - antivaxxers pay higher taxes (applied as a tax discount for any adult who can prove all their offspring are up-to-date with their vaccinations, thus reducing the burden on public health budgets - obviously childless ppl get the discount by default and parents of children who can't be vaccinated fir medical reasons would get dispensation)

In terms of health care professionals, and ideologically opposed antivaxxer is a much greater danger to public health than someone who medically can't tolerate vaccines or doesn't respond to them. It's not at all unreasonable for employers and training providers to treat those categories differently. This antivaxxer loon was quite rightly excluded from the training programme - the only errors were not communicating the necessity better and not doing the exclusion quicker.

Although anti-vaxxer ideology is sheer idiocy I don't agree that unvaccinated kids should be excluded from school. All kids have a right to education and it would be very wrong to deny this to some kids (and leave their education in the hands of proven idiot parents).

Maybe some schools could exclude, as long as one school in an area would take unvaxxed children and parents who cannot vaccinate for medical reasons would not be forced to send their child there.

I prefer the Aussie model. You cannot access certain family benefits if your DC are not immunised (unless you have a medical exemption certificate, or a doctor's letter attesting compliance with catch-up programme if newly arrived from a country with a different schedule).

Chiidren's right to an education (which in this country generally means schooling in a state school) should not be removed because of parental decision on a different matter. Of course education outside the CSA years (pre-school/nurseries) could ban, without impinging on the child's rights

"and parents who cannot vaccinate for medical reasons would not be forced to send their child there"

Schools do not have to have a medical/social need admissions category at all at present. I think this wouid be pretty unworkable, especially in Scotland

@sashh Maybe some schools could exclude, as long as one school in an area would take unvaxxed children and parents who cannot vaccinate for medical reasons would not be forced to send their child there.
@meditrina I think this wouid be pretty unworkable, especially in Scotland

I like sashh's idea. Maybe in areas that are so remote that there is only one school in reachable distance, each school could have a single class which was "unvaccinated kids allowed" and the rest of the classes would be "All Vaccinated" so that the kids who cannot vaccinate for medical reasons can be kept safe with herd immunity. If an area is so remote that there is only one (or half) class for each year group, then they would have to be educated "remotely" in the same way as kids on very isolated islands are.