BA Economics and BSc Economics

[Shimy]

I'm hoping to hear from people are familiar with, in particular the BA Econs or bot
DS is interested in studying Economics at Uni but as he is not shit hot in Maths, and we can't ever see him doing A'level Maths) infact has struggled with it immensely in the past and has only started to average B's consistently decided something like Marketing or Business Mgt might be another good option. However, i got talking to some young people yesterday who shared that they were hoping to do a BA in economics. This is the first i'm hearing there is a BA as well as a BSc. They explained they preferred the BA because it has less Maths content and they are not required to do A'level Maths.

I've been looking up the two to differentiate between them through course content unsuccessfully, and what they lead on to. One seems to be more theory and applied whilst the other is more analytical, but some websites seem to contradict that. Can anyone shed anymore light?

Even most BA Economics courses require Maths A level to access the degree course. I would go online and have a search for any that don't. Someone may be along soon to suggest one that doesn't need maths but they are very rare.

I've been on a a few university websites; Sheffield, Reading, Leicester, Warwick are amongst quite a few that don't require Maths at A'Level.

Manchester University does (or did) offer both. I imagine the BSc is more econometrics heavy whilst the BA will be more focussed on e.g. behavioural economics i.e. treating it more as a social science. I didn't do an economics only degree but did all of the economics modules the OU offered as part of their economics + other subjects degrees. Although there was some compulsory econometrics content, you didn't have to only do that for the dissertation part. And my maths is rusty and not strong but I could keep up. I imagine it's similar in other universities that offer BA and BSc.

Im also interested in potential future careers for graduates with a BA Econs. The university websites seem to posit somewhat similar job outcomes for both the BSc and BA, but i'm looking for other opinions thanks.

Just had a quick look at University of Machester, and they do offer the BA and also do not require Maths A'Level.

I studied economics (BA) and there was a lot of maths. In fact without A level Maths most of the models that explain economic theory won't be understood. I suggest he studies business or another subject instead.

I've been on a a few university websites; Sheffield, Reading, Leicester, Warwick are amongst quite a few that don't require Maths at A'Level.

Warwick definitely requires an A at A level Maths.

Are you sure? Warwick definitely does need Maths

Are you looking at joint honours degrees?

Re Warwick, their BA Economics and French doesn't require Maths at A'level. They have quite a few combinations of Economics degrees.

I can only assume that if the university is not requiring Maths for the BA then most would not have done Maths at A'level. Those who do have Maths will be applying for the BSc. Clearly there is a difference in content otherwise why offer both?

Just to focus this thread a bit, I'm more interested in what the differences between the BA and BSC are and the future careers. We want to have as much information as possible before completely shutting any doors.

I'm an economist. Even if the university doesn't require A-level maths I'd expect there to be a fair amount of maths content even in a BA it just might not have lots of econometrics in the course. Depending on his interests he might enjoy the BA more if it has say behavioural economics, social policy, economic history type models. However for a lot of the key theories he is going to have to be happy with maths concepts even if he isn't a whizz and might have to accept that he will have to continue to work at his maths long term.

What is it about an economics degree that appeals and what does he want to do long term?

The civil service/Government economic service is a big recruiter of graduate economists and they would be happy with a BA if his models were 50%+ economics. Also check out their apprenticeship scheme which is new but would give a salary alongside university study.

Have you searched MN re economics degrees. I seem to remember a thread where even the courses where Maths wasn't a requirement had 95% having done Maths and someone was struggling because there was an assumption everyone understood/had A level.

firstTime - He is not completely adverse to any Maths content and school have said he is definitely on track for an A in Maths at GCSE. He's also a very strong science student inspite of his not stellar Maths ability. Career wise, he is very strong business minded and is heavily involved in entrepreneurship at school eg won business tycoon competition, sells a few things, enjoys putting his ideas into a business plan.

I will definitely check out the apprenticeship program you mentioned.

Leeds business.leeds.ac.uk/undergraduate/bsc-economics/

and Liverpool www.liverpool.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/business-economics-ba-hons/module-details/

don't ask for maths but they look more finance weighted. And will cover maths in 1st year.

I'm glad to see there are others like Leeds and Liverpool also offering the BA. I'll have a good look at all of them and compare them to get a better feel.

There isn’t a universal rule that BA doesn’t require A level maths but BSc does, so it may be worth broadening your search to all econ degrees without the requirement.

But, I agree with the pp, that it’s ok to not have maths A level, but he should be aware that degree level economics is a mathematical subject. If he doesn’t like maths enough to choose it at A level then possibly economics is not a good fit for him.

I'm also an economist: if he wants to "do" something with his degree, he will likely need Maths at A level or the ability to have done it, if that makes sense, even if it's a JH option. People who don't have that level of ability tend to really struggle, especially for the BEcon (actually, not sure this exists nowadays!) and BSc. I don't have maths at A level (mainly because my first career was in Classics...) but I started economics in postgrad. It was a struggle in the beginning, not just because of a new discipline but because of the amount of maths - I hadn't done anything other than GCSE maths, and nothing much with that for 20 years since, except obvious daily-type maths. I am now a social science type economist but I still use econometrics, modelling and other mathsy - type economics daily.

If your son is more inclined to business etc, I would recommend going that route, in all honesty. Undergrads tend to find first year especially rather hard, and very hard if their previous experience is economics A level and not maths. If finance is more his thing, again, I'd recommend a business school above pure economics.

Most economists I know work for the government: I worked previously for the EC and later the World Bank, and other former colleagues are in the UN or the IMF. It's a great discipline, but it really doesn't float everyone's boat, probably because it's quite an intense mix of maths and softer social science approaches.

DD did Economics and was placed in the BSc stream by her university (Royal Holloway University of London). She had a A-Level in Maths and Further Maths.

RHUL said at the open day that they had streams for students with and without A-Level maths, but DD felt she was in the less numerate stream.

I think a lot depends on how fixated the university is in econometrics.

Hefzi thanks for a very detailed comment. Lots to think about.

Carfty -I don't think doing a BSc in Economics without A'Level Maths is a good idea at all and the streaming just sounds like a catch all way of squeezing as many as possible on to the course. Some will pay heavily for it after the excitement of getting in has died down sadly.

I went to Durham to do s BA in economics ( not sure if you can still do it. I didn't do A level maths but am numerate ( now accountant) but effectively had to cover a large part of the A level maths in the first year and a lot of stats. Personally I would hesitate to do economics without maths A level, I swopped to PPE after year 1 and still did the core economics but diluted with politics

Just also to mention that the jump from GCSE to A Level is significant. It's sometimes worth giving it a term or two in sixth form and seeing how your DS gets on and actually, what he enjoys at this level. The subjects can feel like whole different subjects to GCSE.

DS is doing a Maths degree and is in his first year. Given it's a single subject, he has to do a minor subject for the first year and has chosen Economics. Safe to say he's really not enjoying at all, but that's because he's a maths person through and through. Ironically, he's doing incredibly well at Economics but he's got the logical mathematical brain to cope.

Good luck with it all!

The BA/BSc distinction is a bit of a red herring. Some programmes that were previously a BA are now a BSc as potential students (i.e. their parents) perceive the latter to be more valuable, and so universities have responded.

There is no getting around the fact that the way Economics is taught in UK universities is highly mathematical. A lot of very good universities don't require A level maths, but the majority of students will have taken it. Some universities are good at trying to address this imbalance (putting on extra support sessions for the non A level students, for example) but even so I suspect these students are at a disadvantage.

Some joint honours courses - Economics and Something Else - will have a special (shorter) version of the quants courses in Year 1 (as the students' time is spread thinly over different departments) and possibly no quants in Years 2 and 3. This is something to look into if there is interest in another social science or a language that can be paired with Econ.

I agree with Ducks that the BA/BSc is a red herring. It's a shame if courses require A level Maths because that would exclude good mathematicians or at least those very comfortable with quantitative work eg may have Physics instead of Maths. The point is unless you can comfortably work with the language of maths, studying and working with economics will be quite limited.

Those with A level Maths are not necessarily good with numerate thinking. Asking for Maths A level is lazy and ineffective. At the same time, anyone who thinks they can enjoy and engage well with economics without an innate confidence in handling mathematical data and concepts will be in for a bit of a rough ride. Economics A level is even less necessary than A level Maths, both subjects are very different at degree level. A degree with wide module flexibility, allowing growth and exploration across both econometric and social studies will keep most doors open, and be more likely to reach an effective outcome interest- and career- wise.