RG or Best department for the course?

[Shimy]

Slight dilemma here with DS firming choices. He has identical offers. One is with an RG uni and the other non RG, middling uni with excellent department for his subject, ranks higher than the RG for (Computer science). Which one do employers consider most? is it the RG status or strength of the department?

Which course has the best grad employment stats and which one has better links with industry/employers? It depends how a course obtains ranking ranked also how a university is ranked. It’s possible there is little difference in reality for good grads from both. Employment stats, eventually, come down to employability and that isn’t just about a course at a given university. CV and personal skills and attributes come into play as well. One assumes the best grads from both courses will get employment. So what course does he prefer and which location suits him for 3 years? Also which RG? Durham or Warwick, for example, would trump mid division non RG in my view. He might also look at A level grades required. The more difficult the course is to get onto, might indicate it’s actually more respected in terms of employability. It could be argued they are mopping up the best qualified young people.

I ageee though, it’s difficult.

The Complete University Guide ranks non RG as: Bath 12th, Lancaster 17th and Loughborough 19th for Computer Science. None of these are mid ranked overall. So is a mid ranking university really offering the best course?

Does either course offer a year in industry? Have you visited both uni's? Would it be worth revisiting for offer holders' days at both to do a comparison? Which academics/style of teaching/course content does he prefer? What is the general feeling on The Student Room?

Personally, I wouldn't get too hung up on the RG thing - it's made out to be this huge thing on MN whereas IRL as Bubbles says employers are looking for the complete package. If you need proof, just remember that Bath isn't RG as are many of the top uni's for employability. Go with the course he'd most like to study.

Both offer a year in industry. Both have very good links to industry and The RG is Cardiff and the other Swansea. Visited Swansea so far which has a fabulous Computer science dept. In my mind and according to subject rankings, Swansea is the better one but I don't know wether Cardiff's RG status will count for more on paper. We are soon to visit Cardiff but we know that Swansea's dept has the edge at the moment.

Hopefully visiting Cardiff will make the decision easier for you. Good luck!

Cardiff is decidedly mid division for this course and Cardiff and Queen Mary London are bottom of the RGs for this subject. Therefore Swansea would seem just as good if not better. I don’t think Cardiff would outrank Swansea because this subject doesn’t seem to be a strength whereas at Swansea it is. There is a pecking order of RGs and Cardiff appears to be off the pace in this subject.

Did he not look further than Wales? Has this limited his choices?

One good thing is that you can visit Cardiff with a critical eye and your son can ask/check out anything he really wants to know. Ask about placements/employment prospects as well. Either way, your son has to feel the course itself it good for him and be happy living wherever.

Bubbles - It does seem like Cardiff in this case is riding on its reputation in other areas as far as Computer science is concerned. Swansea on the other hand, are making a great name for themselves in engineering and computer science.
I'm just not sure how much below the surface employers look when it comes to recruitment and fielding CV's. All you hear on MN is that RG's are the only sought after names on CV's. I don't know wether to encourage DS to go for the better department or to encourage the RG option since they are both asking for the same grades.

DS is not a top RG person, he's options are all very good non RG's so he's not limited, just got this dilemma of which to firm.

ifonly - visit to Cardiff is coming up soon. We've visited 2 other options and Swansea was by far the best. Up till that point, we had thought he would definitely be firming Cardiff, but now its not so clear. We've actually spoken to them about placements, employment etc and its all yes, yes, we do that etc they have good stats on unistats too, but so does Swansea arrgh!

As DH is a civil, highways and structural engineering consultant I can assure you that for some subjects, such as Engineering, RG isn’t necessarily the Holy Grail. I would be guilty as charged if you were talking about BAs such as American Studies and Ancient History. (I’ll get flamed now!) But you are not.

When recruiters look at CVs they don’t necessarily just look at university without taking the whole of the cv into account. Therefore a year in industry, work placements, and other personal attributes that form a cv are important. My DH can find that many grads are spoon fed at university and cannot think for themselves and find solutions. They are not taught to do this. It’s a great bonus if they are. So a year out can be valuable. Some DCs will want to be experts in a niche area but others need to be generalist and show they will learn quickly, be proactive and work effectively and accurately in a team. There is always more to employment than modules you have taken at university.

I think some employers could have favourite universities and filter some out but it’s not likely for Swansea. Employers might look at modules and marks but many won’t overly worry about this, other than wanting a 2:1. My DH’s consultancy has their own suitability and competence tests. Therefore grads can prove what they can do and talk to DH and others about how they think and find solutions. It’s never a given that RG educated will be better at this. He also looks for decent command of English!

DC should always show an interest in the field of work for which they are applying and half the knack of getting a job is matching your cv and work interests to the right employers and not scattergunning indiscriminately.

Hope this helps.

One reason why Swansea would win over Cardiff
www.ukri.org/news/200m-to-create-a-new-generation-of-artificial-intelligence-leaders/

My ds is probably going to firm Bath over various RG unis for his engineering degree. He likes the course content, the campus setup & the town. He is not the most confidently outgoing person at present so it is important he feels at ease where he will be studying for 4 years.

I also think it is less important where you study if you are doing a vocational degree. I doubt anyone here has heard of the uni I went to. One of my classmates is now very very senior in one of the top companies in the world for our field.

I go to a RG. Employment prospects are good in the top courses but the others are a waste of time. Tbh I don’t think status of a uni matters unless the student is one of those pathetic women hanging around the law department despite studying something completely inane hoping to find a wealthy husband which is thankfully very very rare these days. Swansea does have an excellent reputation in IT but I think you will get a better picture by going there. It’s is only three years and postgraduate study is increasingly common so I wouldn’t agonise too much. Make a decision and get on with it.

What a horrible post, Gregory. unbelievable!

Bath is ranked higher than many RG for lots of courses so it’s not much of a risk to go there!

Bubbles - Thanks very much for sharing that. I'll definitely bear all that in mind. Its good to know employers aren't just looking at names of universities.

Decorhate - Your point re: distinction between vocational and humanity type courses rings very true.
I think everyone has kind of confirmed my initial thoughts on which one to go for (just need to encourage ds in that direction now).

Sendsummer - Thanks so much for that link! the research was mentioned at the offer day but i couldn't remember the details except that 11 phd students will be funded per year for the next 5yrs in the CS dept. at Swansea. Of course this link now explains the bigger picture clearly. I also remember them saying they were the only uni in Wales taking part.

Gregory - We've already visited Swansea and it was amazing!

Gregory in my day - some many days ago - I recall quite a few boys who weren't in the least pathetic hanging around me (I read law). It was entirely pleasing. Your comment is seriously weird.

I don't think they were after money as a matter of fact.

I think that Mumsnet places way more reliance on RG universities than the rest of the world. Sure there are a small handful of employers who recruit solely from RG, but the vast majority look at the whole package in front of them. Particularly in the engineering / IT space, where if you have technical skills and are also able to communicate and have good interpersonal skills you'll have no problem getting a job

The right setting for your dc - bigger or smaller city? Distance from home? Large or small dept? The rg is simply a club and several universities didn't join because of the politics, it doesn't make them bad universities

Well the research on grad prospects does indicate RG is best for future earnings but obviously not for every course or discipline. What you study where still has importance. Economics is a case where some universities outstrip others massively. However if you cannot get into the top RG ones then at least make an informed choice about elsewhere.

DD is at an RG but doesn't think it's a very good university in a lot of ways (though her tutor is excellent, top of his field) she says it's mainly good because it attracts good students with good grades and that's why it has a good reputation.

Depends on what you want out of a university though, Brizzle. Of course good universities attract good students and you get to study with them. That’s an advantage that Oxbridge see as important because hopefully you get high class seminars and tutorials. A great lecturer and decent other students isn’t a minus in my view!

A great lecturer and decent other students isn’t a minus in my view!

Absolutely. She's less than keen on the inefficiency though and lack of pastoral care.