Student snobbishness?

[keysofhope]

Hello there,

I was just wondering if anyone else has had their children complain of snobbish course mates? DS goes to a place full of very very privileged students, many of whom from the most famous boarding schools.

He finds many to be quite snobbish. He says that he seems to think that people think him a bit thick and instantly to be working class as he is from Scotland. They also assume as he is not from London that equally he must be dirt poor and only got into said university for access reasons. They also think that as he went to a Gaelic state school, then he must once more be not worth their time.

What DH finds funny (who is from the sort of background as those in complaint), is that many of them are second generation immigrants with parents who've done well, but now see themselves as the English gentleman sort.

For the note of it, being working class is great (my mum was), but I am putting it like this as it's a definite looking down ones nose for it.

[Xenia]

There will always be people who cleave to those like they are and some will be nasty to those who are different whether that's because of "higher", "lower" class, colour etc. It is obviously utterly awful. As I said above my only advice to my children at university was to be kind to everyone.

My sons are at university now and one was saying the other day how good it has been that it has given him the chance to meet so many different people (eg he was at a boys' school, not that he doesn't know girls as he has sisters and had out of school mixed clubs). Most of his secondary school was not white (he is white) so this is quite an interesting reversal of what might usually happen but this is the first time he has been with people more like this family in terms of culture etc; as well as with people from all over the country many of whom do not have that much money (we are reasonably well off). He has friends on his course, other friends from his hall etc etc. In fact lots of different friends. I don't think they are limited to class or colour or kind of school.

That does not mean there won't be teenagers at universities who are awful to someone who does not have or who does have a regional accent. I just hope we can always stamp it out. I was different in a sense at university - graduated a teetotal virgin by choice, but I found things I fitted into which did not involve drinking and sex, although it is never that easy to be different.

If you are from one of the 80% of children (at sixth form level) from a state school (I am not sure how lower that goes if we also include posh comps in rich areas and state grammars - possibly down to 50%) then university is a good time to have a chance to mix with better off people and vice versa.

[IsThereRoomAtTheInn]

There were not too many of the public educated types at my university and I was still a bit of a novelty as white working class young woman. The other girl like me on our course left quite quickly deciding university wasn't for her. She did get quite an unpleasant response from some as she wasn't quiet like me..I flew under the radar and didn't present as too different perhaps.

Fwiw the ex public schoolgirl I shared halls with was lovely and I knew some well off girls from elsewhere who were great too.

Whereas there were some state school corkers! The worst funnily enough was from my home region. It was the old case of small differences oerhaps, she mocked my accent and called me something similar to "Cockney IsThere" to my face! I just treated her as nuts and kept my distance.

[IsThereRoomAtTheInn]

For from elsewhere I should have said from abroad.

[Agustarella]

@Goodbyestranger Were the Old Etonians in your DD's subject group? If not, she probably wouldn't be overly aware of them, as they are/were unlikely to seek her out. If you don't study or socialize with a particular group, those people are just names on a notice board or faces on a matriculation photo.

[ForgivenessIsDivine]

The stats are that even Oxford and Cambridge don’t have a majority of privately educated students.

The stats are that Oxford, Cambridge and Durham take 42% (Oxford) and 37% (Cambridge and Durham) of their students from the 7% of the population that is educated privately.

It may not hit the 'majority' quoted in the OP but it is rather unbalanced.

[Xenia]

Although I think by sixth form it is more like 18% educated privately by the way and if you add posh comps and state grammars who may well have a lot of parents who could afford fees it gets even higher.
Also if you take 50% going to university given most children at fee paying schools go to university and 50% of state school pupils don't then your 18% or 20% of children going to private schools for sixth form becomes 40% so ends up being pretty representative at university.

[Myothercarisalsoshit]

My boy is at Bristol. He went to a very 'bog standard' comp and then a sixth form college. He found halls to be a bit of a trial last year as he was put with a very cliquey bunch who found his Northern accent 'irritating' and would blame him for things like stealing food or not tidying up (it was found, much later to be one of the girls who was doing it). They also called him a 'pov' because he shopped at Aldi and didn't have much money left over from our contributions and his loan. We're not poor as such, I'm a teacher and my partner does bar work. I don't know if they were privately educated but they were certainly up themselves. On his course (filmmaking) he struggled a couple of times working in teams with a few 'alpha' types who thought they knew it all and would give him menial stuff to do or not tell him when they were meeting up to discuss their project etc. He quickly worked out who to avoid and the course leaders could see what was happening and mixed the teams up. My boy is quite confident in himself though and certainly knows his subject and this has meant that he has become highly regarded by the lecturers. I don't know how he would have coped with it if he wasn't. I know a couple of kids left after a term.

[goodbyestranger]

Agustarella one was in DD's boyfriend's subject group; two were within their joint immediate friendship group.

[llangennith]

DD went to Balliol from single parent on benefits home and didn't encounter any snobbishness. Maybe it's your DS that has the problem.

[Xenia]

Myother, that's very nasty of them. I never even heard the term pov until this thread - presumably it means poverty. I hope my sons realise there are people with more money than others (I am sure they know that and they are quite generous actually - which in effect is generous with my money I suppose - in some ways in a very minor way I am subsidising some families where mothers of the student sons don't work full time! not that I mind as it is not as if mine are siphoning loads of their allowance to those less well off).

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

I think the name calling can be pretty nasty. DS went to a bog standard Russell group uni but was the only one in his flat of eight who had been to an ordinary comp rather than a private school or a grammar.

He's a very happy go lucky young man who gets on with everyone but fell out with one of the posh boys over a girl. He was pretty shocked at the level of arrogance displayed by this lad. When I questioned whether he was overreacting he showed me his phone. "Pikey chav" was this lad's insult of choice, which I actually found really offensive.

DS shrugged it off (we are working class made good through education and not ashamed of it) but left to me I would have tried to take it further. I honestly believe it is hate speech at some level.

[dapplegrey]

Tinkly do you think it’s acceptable to call people ‘posh inbreds?

[Xenia]

Pikey chav, pov and posh inbreds all sound pretty awful and don't meet my rule of being kind to others.

I suspect teenagers falling out over a girl or boy probably feel as strongly as anyone ever can feel about anything however. It is the age they run off to fight for ISIS, have raging hormones and all sorts so I suspect quite a few of them aren't as polite to each other as they should be at time, not that hormones are any excuse to be nasty.

[CherryPavlova]

I have one still at university. She’s at Exeter and very happy. There were advantages that 34 students from her year started with her - so they already had a cohort they knew. This probably did give them greater confidence initially. They also had Old Boys alumni dinners hosted and paid for so the sense of elitism did continue slightly because the school wants to keep that sense of belonging and continuing relationship.
There were mainly independently educated pupils in her first year hall but then she picked ‘Princess Towers’ with lovely on campus, catered en-suite, rooms. She moved in with one friend and a friend of a friend so we’re likely to feel secure. I suspect some other halls had a different mix of backgrounds but it’s true, the campus oozes privilege when compared to the university our eldest daughter went to.
That doesn’t mean they are all unkind or look down upon those from state schools. Absolutely my daughters friends don’t.
They are a mix of varied backgrounds but there is something about those with more money socialising together. Cocktails, black tie dinners, balls, weekends away all come at a cost and you have to have reasonable funds to join in.

[Everincreasingfrequency]

"There were advantages that 34 students from her year started with her"

34 from one school cherry? that sounds like a large proportion of the year! was it 30% ish, or even higher?

Interesting that you say Exeter oozed privilege - interestingly it was not one of the very highest private school percentages, and state school students were certainly more than 60% of the total. I think there was a thread recently asking about exeter, and many pp said that either they or their dc had not found it difficult to fit in from state schools. I suppose people's pereceptions may depend a lot on chance - who you are in halls with, who is in your course study groups and so on.

[titchy]

Funnily enough my Exeter-going dc has a wide mix of friends. State, private day, private boarding, international students. None of them really care about each other's backgrounds and they seem a really nice down to earth bunch.

Dc says most of the girls wear primark or similar to the balls!

[titchy]

Balls by the way are just an organised night out at a venue. Not exactly debutante balls...

[CherryPavlova]

No, exactly. Lots of her school chose Exeter. They generally sent to a handful of universities so large numbers in each. Exeter sits at around 32% Independently educated. It’s about number 10/11 in league table.

The 34 ex pupils is about 17% of the year, I think. Other popular choices are Oxbridge, Durham, Bristol, London and Leeds. A few go overseas to USA predominantly. A few go to specialist centres like RAM, St Martins etc.

I think my point it oozed privilege - certain halls but different halls probably had a different feel. Let’s remember there are many very privileged children in state schools. My daughter was in a comprehensive for several years. There are certainly state pupils amongst her friendships and no suggestion of lesser beings. I do think it’s easier if you already know people though.

[Xenia]

Indeed. Sometimes those of us who pay school fees are the ones with less money. One we found who lived near us has a house worth £3m but went to a local state school and seemed to have some good scholarship funds too - good for them of course. Even if you can easily afford school fees you don't have to send children to private schools.

[CherryPavlova]

titchy, since we pay for the dresses, I’m well aware what a ball is! Her last one was in a castle somewhere. Sounded lovely but there are many lads who don’t own black tie, so it can be a tad excluding.
Mine also thoroughly enjoys Exeter but isn’t there this year. Her boyfriend is though.

[BasiliskStare]

Augustarella - Have we jumped the shark here ? with " Their distinguishing feature, however, is their deeply-felt aversion to their social inferiors, to the extent that even making eye contact is uncomfortable to them. It is a kind of instinctive revulsion which a white supremacist must feel towards members of other races. "

I give up at this point. Some people are more congenial and tolerant , some aren't. But seriously , today do you not even begin to contemplate that those who have been to different types of schools but have at least an interest in an area of study & lumped in together might just might get on if they share interests or a sense of humour.

DS was at Oxford and said he never once came across anyone who was a member or talked about the Bullingdon - it was considered a bit infra dig as a thing ( and indeed he thought pretty much probably extinct)

I cannot say that anyone hasn't had an example of feeling ( or indeed being) "looked down on." But Oxford is pretty big ( i.e. numbers of students ) If between course / accommodation / social things / sport / societies a student cannot find people they get on with then that is a different problem IMHO.

I am referring to once you are there . Access etc - confidence in applying is a different matter & not what I am talking about. But if it ever helps anyone here I can only say DS and his mates were from all sorts of different schools and places and he seemed to find friends . His view was - " if you don't like me , just don't like me , if it's school , accent etc , say it quickly & then I can just move on and talk to someone else. "

Not sure that helps but I am just trying to counteract some of the snobbish related posts - but just one DS and one university I cannot speak for others and other universities.

[LoniceraJaponica]

I'm staggered at the fact that 34 students from one 6th form all went to the same university.

The students from DD's 6th form went all over the place. Surely this is the norm?

[goodbyestranger]

CherryPavlova the very idea that the better off students distribute largesse by not regarding the less well off students as 'lesser beings' shows a wonderful - or woeful - lack of self knowledge.

My (independently educated) niece went to Exeter, graduating recently. I thought my sister's account of her rah friendship group sounded grim.

[goodbyestranger]

Basilisk cross post. Intelligence seems to be a leveller these days, as indeed it should be. These stridently rah types won't also be the cleverest types. I think that's part of any problem.

[CherryPavlova]

goodbystranger. I don’t recall saying they distributed largesse, I said they didn’t judge people on the school they went to as less than equal. Why would they? If your niece picked snobby, rah friends that is a failing of your niece not young people in general. My daughters experience has been judging people on whether they are good fun, pleasant, kind. Finance does restrict certain activities and so social contacts for some though. It’s sad but inevitable.

My children’s sixth form certainly had preferred universities. Of course, the odd one went somewhere different and those choosing medicine or vets were restricted by places offering courses. Most went to about 10 universities though. A handful each to Oxford and Cambridge. A good number to Durham. A few each to Edinburgh and St Andrews. Lots to Bristol, Exeter, London and Leeds. None to Essex, UWE, Southampton Solent, Portsmouth or a few others that were discouraged. Careers and university information evenings at school meant certain universities could recruit through direct discussion with admissions staff.

Then again the state sixth form my eldest went through also discouraged application to certain universities.