Different UCAS points for BTec than A Levels? Thought they were supposed to be equal?

[sombrerohat]

DS1 did an Extended Diploma in science, all the Unis we spoke to told us it was equivalent to 3 science A levels and he just needed to get the required number of UCAS points to get on the course. Sorted.

DS2 is now looking, and the course that he is looking at asks for 88 UCAS points if you do A Levels, which I understand is CCD, or Dstar DD at Btec, which is equivalent to 152 UCAS points, which is supposed to be the same as A level Astar AA.

How can this be right? I'm putting 2 and 2 together and making 5, and assuming that most people applying for DS2's course will be taking the more vocational BTecs rather than science?

Your tariff calculation is wrong. 88 points from a BTEC Extended Diploma is around MMP, not Dstar,D,D.

Or do you mean they ask for Dstar, D, D? That would be unusual - which uni and course?

I would ask the universities for further clarification.
However it is true that the Applied Science BTEC isn't considered as highly as A levels and that higher grades may be required. Your example does seem a bit extreme though.
How long ago did your ds1 take the BTEC course? If it's before A level reforms were introduced then that may explain the difference. The new Linear Science A levels are seen as more academically rigorous.
There used to be Applied Science A level options but these haven't been around for a few years now.

This may not be the course your ds2 is interested in but the pros and cons list of level 3 Applied Science BTECs are listed here.
forensicoutreach.com/library/the-pros-and-cons-of-btec-applied-science/

You can use the UCAS points calculator to figure it out.

I thought unis that accepted btecs wanted a standard DDM.

Some unis were asking for an A in maths for their engineer courses, so DSs college were ifffering this alongside the BTEC to cover all bases, but the uni DS goes to only asked for a Distinction maths. I've never quite figured out if this is an A or B equivalent. DS did get a distinction, but he would never have got an A in Alevel maths even if he had remembered there was an exam he needed to turn up for

Sorry, to be clear, DS1 took BTec Extended Diploma in science and has just started at Uni this year, the Uni's he was looking at were happy to take it in place of A Levels.

However, DS2 is due to start 6th form next year and is looking at options for A levels or BTec, and so we're working backwards from the Uni course he likes the look of. It says if you have A levels, we need at least 88 UCAS points from 3, but if you have an Extended Diploma we want D*DD (which according to the UCAS tariff calculator is 152 UCAS points)

Not just me that thinks it's odd then? I'll ask the Uni, perhaps it's a typo.

Uni’s often take only a small number of BTEC students for each course and so they would require the students they do take to be at the very top of their course. Dd is looking at uni courses that require 3 A’s but for Btech students they ask for triple D* (the equivalent of 3As)

Sorry issues with bold type appearing instead of stars - that should be 3A*’s

And triple D*

I'd expect a high tariff institution to do that noname, but a low tariff one doing that is unusual to say the least - usually they're desperate for numbers! Or is it a new course and they're spectacularly inexperienced?

my son did a subsidiary Btec in one subject and gained a Distinction . As well as two A levels at C. The thing is, he would not have gained an A at A level in any subject. His ability to write essays, use evidence and analyse was good enough but not outstanding (hence the C's at A level, which he is proud of, and so am I) BUT I do not think that his subsidiary Btec is equivalent in academic terms to an A . It is equivalent to a good A level grade, B or C but not an A.
Make of that what you will. Surely the universities are allowed to decide what skills they need for each course? I don't think it is unfair as such, it is just what they need the students to have to make a success of the course.
Ds's course asked for 104 points, which was considered a low offer; he made 128 with plenty to spare when he added in arts qualifications.

sorry didn't mean to add all that highlighting, a mistake!

there was mean to be a star after distinction and a star after the A! Ditto with the stars in the second highlighted bit.

Some unis do set different standards for different qualifications for some courses. My DC1 is doing the IB and we see plenty where the A level and IB offers are not comparable. Eg Politics at Cambridge wants A*AA compared to 776 Higher with a total.of 40-42 (which means 6s in Standard subjects too!).

I'm surprised. Most courses that have low entry requirements use the ucas tariff rather than specific requirements.

Eg Bolton requires 88 and only wants MMM in a Btec diploma

You can get 88 ucas points with just two A levels so that’s a pretty low requirement for a degree course. It’s a C and B I think. (40 plus 48). I would think it’s the ucas points that are incorrect. I think it should be 118. That would be sensible.

I'd always been told that they were equal in UCAS point terms too. But then again, you can get UCAS points for many things, even dance.

In reality though, real universities know that they are no substitute for the work needed to get the 'equal' grades at A level. Hence only really ex-poly places take points rather than grades.

In reality though, real universities know that they are no substitute for the work needed to get the 'equal' grades at A level. Hence only really ex-poly places take points rather than grades

classic mumsnet snobbery. Honestly I feel sorry for some of you people.

My DS has an offer from Birmingham of 3x D*.

The A level offer for the same course is AAB. I don't think it is unreasonable to pitch a Distinction star at the level of an A rather than A star, but I think it should have consistent treatment across Unis/UCAS.

Plenty of top class universities take BTecs at the D*/D level but may require an A level too. Eg Engineering degrees at Bristol require an A level in Maths in addition to the BTec in Engineering. Also the better universities do not ask for ucas points. They specify grades of A level or BTec or a combination.

88 ucas points is too low and looks like a typo.

OP, I think it must be a typo- 88 points is low.

In reality though, real universities know that they are no substitute for the work needed to get the 'equal' grades at A level. Hence only really ex-poly places take points rather than grades.

This is too funny. BTEC's do have grades. And Russel group universities do accept them. As already said, they may also ask for maths Alevel at a grade A, just as they do with Alevels.

It's funny how so many people who study at these not real universities go on to get very real, well paying jobs.

I think you have slightly missed the point Lynette. I believe the ucas points is what was being referred to, not grades. Few RG universities ask for ucas points. Many ex polys don’t either.

88 points from two A levels is an A (48) and a B (40), not a B and a C, which would be 72 (40 plus 32). @sombrerohat, does it say, 88 points, from a minimum of two A levels?

So one might perhaps expect that to translate to DMM (ABB equivalent) since the Extended Diploma only comes as a trio of results?

At the end of the day, either the university means what it says, for some reason to do with prior experience of BTEC entrants, or they've got in a muddle over the A level / BTEC equivalence, or there is, as has already been suggested, a mistake in the statement of UCAS tariff points required. Looking at other degree courses at the same university, do the A level and BTEC show a similar disparity?

Ah Marchingfrogs, that might be it!