Medicine 2020

[EightToSixer]

Ok, so I know it's super early, but I've been hovering at the medicine 18 and 19 threads. DD is keen to apply for medicine in 2020. Is anyone else in the same boat?
I thought it would be useful to share info and stories, it's all a very steep learning curve because despite me now having a PhD and working in a RG university I was late to learning and not a patch on my DD who is very driven and organised.
Hopefully people will find this group and we can share the rollercoaster of the next two years.

Amazing @since well done to your DD.

@medschoolrat yes that's correct re Oxbridge admissions. It seems ridiculously unfair. DD still keen to apply but may do worse on BMAT due to the essay as she is dyslexic, so is potentially losing a 4th ucat med school option in the hope of an attempt at Oxford. Still, she's really keen on the small group work and the smaller colleges of Oxford so is willing to take the risk.

I believe Oxford choose to only accept October BMAT sittings as there is a general feeling that if you sit in August you do better, a certain type of candidate does better in August that in September & a lot of state schools offer help with the BMAT during September & October which can help students perform better.

Thank you! DC has finally decided on applying to Edinburgh, Imperial, UCL and Oxford.

But October BMAT is obvs after application deadline; this means Oxbridge applicants won't have any feeling (not actual result, not even impression on the day) how good their BMAT result is when they apply, correct?

No. That only applies to Oxford, not Cambridge.

When I asked the Oxford admissions dean about this he said that their analysis of results suggested the outcomes of the two tests weren't directly comparable, so it wasn't fair on people who took one of the tests to require the same scores from them as from the people who had sat the other, but there was no way of defining exactly equivalent marks for each.

Can I join you? DD is keen on medicine for 2020 entry so not a lot of time left. She did her UCAT last week and got a very good score so suddenly it actually all seems real. On the back of the UCAT she is thinking she may not sit the BMAT at all and just target her applications carefully. I think we have a super busy month ahead of uni visits since most of the ones she wanted to see clashed in the summer with either her residential biology field trip (compulsory) or her exams that gave her predicted grades. Anyone else with a DC not sure where they’ll be applying yet?

Welcome speedy! Congrats to your dd on her UCAT. We are in Scotland & so an easier choice as dd not considering English unis. We had a manic week of open days in June so good luck to you! My head was spinning by the end but it did really help dd with her choices.

My DD is expecting her GCSE results on Thursday and is hoping to study Medicine starting in 2021 following a very positive work experience placement. I just wanted to say thank you for everyone's contributions on here, there's so much information that will be really useful!

Good luck to everyone sitting the UCAT/BMAT tests soon - rather them than me!

Thanks emummy. Which unis does your DD like? I have a brother living in Scotland so we visited Glasgow, Dundee and Edinburgh over the summer, not any open days just a wander about. She liked them all.

Hi lionfish, hope your DD gets the results she’s hoping for. Seems mad but might be worth seeing if you can go to some of the autumn open days, we managed 2, thought we would do more in the summer, but only managed 1 in the summer, feel very unprepared now!!

Fingers crossed for your Dd lionfish.
speedy Glasgow is top of her list, then Dundee, Edinburgh, Aberdeen. Although she was in Aberdeen for a work experience programme and quite liked it so it may have moved up past Edinburgh. A point about Dundee, if you are in England, Dd said at the open day they said they only take 15 English students! Not sure why that is.

Thanks emummy that is great information. Maybe one to cross off the list then! She has heard, second hand mind you, that the vast majority of medics in Scotland being Scottish they live at home or at least go home at weekends? Doesn't sound right to me - Scotland being quite a big place! I'm sure some will be able to actually live at home but surely not the majority by a long shot? And I'm sure most want that student experience of living in halls etc. The only current uni student she knows in a Scottish uni is in St. Andrews so a bit of an anomaly of a Scottish uni maybe? Difficult to get to and from and with a larger mix? This is why I wish we'd made it to more open days!

I did medicine in Edinburgh - many moons ago mind you! - and most of my class lived away from home. Some places, like Glasgow, seem to attract a lot of local students who stay home. But I think that really most live in halls/ flats so as to not miss out on parties! St Andrews has always been a bit different I think, being so far away from almost everywhere! It's not in our list as we already live in a small town so she wants to go somewhere bigger.

Thanks @speedyhedgehog and @emummy. DD has asked if we can go to a couple of Uni open days in the Autumn so we'll see if we can fit some in. She plays sport so Saturdays are always taken up with that but may be able to do a couple in September before the season starts properly.

DD has aready got a spreadsheet with all the places that offer Medicine and is looking at their websites to populate the columns re typical offers, type of teaching, no of places etc. She is dismissing London because of cost and Scotland because of the distance but there's still a huge choice.

Thanks emummy. It didn't ring true for me. From a bit of the research this morning Edinburgh seems to have the most number of places for non Scottish would be medics, I suppose its changed loads but did you enjoy your time there? So competitive to get in but so is everywhere really when it comes to medicine! And this year will be the first year with interviews don't know if that is good or bad. Lion fish that is very organised of your DD. Mine wanted to do her UCAT first and then start the research in detail tailored to her result but at the moment is consumed with the Leeds festival this coming weekend. We had also ruled out London due to costs - now rethinking and trying to be strategic because her UCAT was good. Trying to do a bit more research on actual costs. Her first choice at the moment Is Birmingham - we have booked on to that open day in September, so we'll see.

I don’t think DD is too sure about working as a clinical doctor. Are any DC also having similar thoughts? She would still like to study medicine, though.

I did enjoy my time in Edinburgh. Great city to live in & there was a good mix of people on the course. The open day this year was a little chaotic but dd did like it. We went out to the teaching facilities at the new hospital and they were good. Dd is not so keen on the fact that the intercalated degree is compulsory rather than optional.
since mine is keen on A&E/GP at present, however it oft changes once you go through the different specialities. And of course there are a lot of jobs you can do with a medical degree that don't involve patient contact, like laboratory specialities, public health, epidemiology etc

@sincethereis - I don’t think DD is too sure about working as a clinical doctor. Are any DC also having similar thoughts? She would still like to study medicine, though.

You should have a serious talk with her about this. After the first 2 years (or 3 years of 6-year courses) students spend the majority of their time in clinical placements. Many final-year students are effectively working as apprentice junior doctors. It's not a worthwhile course for students who don't want to be doctors.

Also, in addition to the £37,000 students pay in tuition fees, the Office for Students and NHS put in over £100,000 for each medical student who completes the course. If that student doesn't go on to work as a doctor, this money has been wasted when it could have been spent on training someone who did want to be a doctor. Even ignoring the money, taking a place away from someone who genuinely does want to be a doctor when we have such a shortage would be selfish.

I think though that people often change as they go through medical school and get experience of different specialities. And all the specialities like pathology, biochemistry, public health, all require a medical degree. It might be helpful for her to get some work experience & also to explain what it is that she's not keen on/sure about. If you know any doctors she could talk to them or pm me.

I kind of agree with STB. Studying medicine "for fun" is depriving someone of a place who could have been passionate about actually caring for patients.

emummy The fields you mention - public health & epidemiology- definitely interest her. She’s been reading quite a lot on HIV/AIDS. The science behind it but also the determinants of disease.

She seems to have enjoyed work experience quite a bit - she did say she felt a bit queasy at times on the ward & didn’t like “ the smell of hospitals” ( whatever that means ) but by the end of her placements she had really got to terms with it.

I think that’s part of the reason why the more academic/research focused with an intercalated degree courses attract her the most.

A lot of medical students graduate & end up not working as clinical doctors post training so I don’t want to discourage her or make her feel potentially guilty for “depriving” someone of a space.

Long post, but hopefully she will settle as the process continues !

all the specialities like pathology, biochemistry, public health, all require a medical degree.

This is a good point, also! Doctors aren’t just needed to work in a clinical setting. Will make sure to mention this to her !

Like most people I know working in public health I don't have a medical degree, or even any clinical training.

Project management qualifications, MBA, geography, economics, oceanography.. some of the backgrounds I know about.
MBA could be the degree to have in NHS commissioning.

all the specialities like pathology, biochemistry, public health, all require a medical degree.
This is a good point, also! Doctors aren’t just needed to work in a clinical setting. Will make sure to mention this to her !

You can't become a pathologist, clinical biochemist or public health consultant without first practising as a doctor in clinical settings. At present you can't even be fully licensed without working for at least one year as a hospital doctor. You can't get onto specialist training programmes for anything like pathology without doing at least two years of clinical medicine. And even then you'll still be seeing patients.

didn’t like “ the smell of hospitals”

Words fail me. Where does she think you learn medicine?

If don't want to be a clinical person why not study Biomedical Sciences or Pharmacology which lead specifically to research. There are a lot of practical exams to pass in medicine and no way round dealing with lots and lots of patients in hospital to get the degree. Think DD told me there are 102 OSCEs. And then have to do F1 which is being a hospital Dr.

Studying 'for fun' made me laugh. DD has a 25+ contact hour week plus own study plus placements, dissection etc. Yes she has time to enjoy herself but it's hard work and if you don't live it I'd say do something else !

I think she may need to think about it some more and be sure it's what she wants, as she will have to go through all the specialities in medical school and do a few of them as a junior before she gets into specialist training programmes. However, can I just point out that a fair number of my fellow students were also squeamish, particularly at the start of the course. They all get used to it to some extent, but there were still some who hated their survival attachments & couldn't wait to get through to the time when they could choose their speciality. A good friend of mine loathed anything to with surgery or A&E and is now a consultant on oncology. So I wouldn't rule out medicine for her totally, but it would be good for her to really think about where she sees herself after graduation. It is a lot of work to go through!

emummy
A long conversation with DH later discussing what being a doctor is like, what working in the NHS is like etc and she is still interested in medicine. It’s so difficult for 17/16 year olds to be expected to make such big decisions for their future at a relatively young age. Thinking short term (e.g. does she want to study medicine at university ? ) rather than such long term ( e.g what kind of doctor does she want to be? Labs or more patient content? Clinical or non-clinical ? ). Ultimately, those questions can be answered as she progresses in her medical degree, hopefully !

Thank you all for your comments

@SirTobyBelch

She got over that! Work experience is an opportunity to test your assumptions/idea and learn about what being a doctor is like. She obviously no longer thinks that.