Art foundation courses - anyone's yr 13 applying?

[Everincreasingfrequency]

Is anyone's yr 13 dc thinking of applying to do an art foundation course next year? Not an area I am very familiar with, so would be great to discuss!

For example:

Is there an unofficial (or even official) 'ranking' of the courses ( I assume the UAL courses are well regarded but hard to get on to? but how about elsewhere?)

And how much difference does it make where you do the foundation course when you come to apply for undergraduate degrees? There seem to be lots of places that do them, but in practice does that enable you to get on to an art degree course?

My DD went straight into her degree course at UAL from school but I know UAL will progress students from Foundation to their degree courses as long as the portfolio is ok. Therefore I would look at them first and don’t assume they are overly competitive.

Regarding choice of Foundation courses, look at the destinations of the leavers. Ask the colleges. Is the course at a recognised Arts university and do the majority of students progress within that university? Or do they go to courses at top Art schools elsewhere?

The key to Foundation Art is prep for the degree interview portfolio and deciding which branch of art you wish to pursue. My DD did two Arts A levels and knew what she wanted. However doing the university portfolio for interviews at the same time as early A levels (March/April for practical submissions I recall) was ludicrously hard work! A Foundation course makes life easier!

Thanks so much bubbles! Your dd did very well to go straight to a degree course didn't she - my impression is that nearly everyone has to go through foundation year even if they've done art a level?

So if you do a foundation year you're using it partly/mainly to work towards the degree interview? that's useful to know. I suppose what i'm wondering is whether it's 'worth it' to do a foundation year at one of the less well known places - or may that just be a cul de sac without a good chance of getting into a good degree course?

As you say, no substitute for looking at leavers' destinations! Are the degree course providers looking solely at the individual/portfolio or is there also an unspoken, unofficial, ranking of 'feeder' foundation courses?

My DD did Art Foundation at her sixth form college in the year after her A levels. In retrospect that was a mistake as all her motivated mates had gone off to uni and the ones still at home were not a very motivated crowd and a poor influence. However she had no problem getting offers from all the degree courses she applied to.

I have to say her foundation was bugger all use in deciding which branch of art she wished to pursue as it was very Fine Art focussed and she had to have her UCAS in by December any way. She basically chose a degree without much of a taste of the subject (Graphic Design) and has not really loved it.

Thanks Tinkly that's very interesting/encouraging! about your dd's applications to degree courses.

Hope that your dd enjoys graphic design more post university - quite often these things can be more rewarding once you're doing them as a job I suppose!

Yes Ever she was offered a place at Camberwell but decided to turn it down because she didn't feel ready for London at the time. I don't think she had an amazing portfolio or anything either, (mainly drawing and 3D fine art stuff rather than anything very graphicy) so I think UAL is very doable from sixth form.

GSA runs evening and Saturday classes for different types of potential entrants to provide Foundation portfolio. Would think this sort of approach may give a better insight into Art school than going elsewhere. DD2 considering options.

Also there is someone on Scotsnet with a DD who has just started at GSA straight from school. iirc she used one of the City Art community outreach projects for Portfolio support.

DD did Art A level and Photography A level. She did a bit of a niche course at LCF. Her A levels were fine and she got A in Art and A* in Photography. The course wasn’t interested in her third A level as the offer was based on her portfolio and two A levels. At interview they did ask her about her portfolio and had it spread out on a table! You have to create it, know it and tell them about your creative thoughts and processes. LCF offer a consultation on portfolios and it’s worth doing for ideas and presentation. Having said that, DDs school
was very art savvy as many girls were talented in that field. The other UAL colleges may well offer consultations too. They certainly offer portfolio prep courses.

I think if you do a foundation, make sure it meets your needs. It should help you decide what area of art (or fashion, fine art, etc) you would like. If you look at UAL there is a huge array of courses on offer and some do take students with the right A levels. Some prefer a foundation.

I don’t think it necessarily matters where you do a foundation but they need to know the time of day regarding portfolio prep. Otherwise what are you doing there? There is a difference in how universities want to see your portfolio too. DD had to send images of hers into some universities before they decided to give her an interview.

I don’t know if a foundation at UAL is better than a provincial one but I would definitely try for a “big name” art school if you can. DDs friend did a foundation at Chelsea and they offered a degree place to those on the foundation. (Subject to a few caveats of course). Also look at facilities and where you would actually like to be.

Thanks all, so helpful! Novice here, but I am guessing GSA is Glasgow School of Art and LCF is London College of Fashion?

Yes I've seen portfolio courses advertised though am hoping for the foundation course the school can advise well enough - not sure dc has time to fit in a course before the application deadlines! Though putting the portfolio together for the foundation application is presumably also potentially very time consuming. This is one area that I know literally nothing about however....

Yes, LCF is London College of Fashion.

I am not sure what they want for a foundation course portfolio but I have no doubt university/college web sites will offer some advice. As should his school. As it’s pre degree, it shouldn’t be too onerous. Is there any open day coming up that you could get to?

I think the portfolio courses are over the summer holidays. Dd did one at the end of y12. Although the advice from LCF was actually better.

Thanks bubbles, and "shouldn't be too onerous" are pleasant words to hear from my point of view! I had thought foundation courses were very competitive - certainly the most well known ones (UAL, GSA?) - but it sounds as though it's not the case that you have to do foundation at one of them to stand a chance of getting on to a good degree course (if Tinkly's dd's experience is anything to go by).

Yes open days are coming up, so that's worth looking into - and I think the school will have some input as well.

As far as I am aware, it is the portfolio that counts the most. Being on course for a high grade art A level helps too. Art interests outside the art curriculum in school are also very useful. They always like to hear about inspiration and what makes you tick as an artist!

DD did textiles as part of the her A level Art and they designed and made clothes for a fashion show which was presented to parents and the school. So I would stress that going to a foundation course that lets you prep for for your interests is important. UAL foundation courses which allow progression to degrees is useful and not be underestimated.

However, do not forget that foundation level is accepting school leavers. Theyknow they are not the finished article! Therefore the ortfolio will not be as demanding as a degree entry portfolio. Dogo to open days and ask though.

Yes every Art course that Dd has ever applied for, from her foundation to her degree choices has wanted DDto take her portfolio and have an interview.

When you think about it, it's a bit weird: to do a maths course you just apply and then get your maths A level which proves you can do maths. But for Art your qualifications are not seen as sufficient evidence.

DD only got a B in A level Art, but she went along to interviews with her portfolio and her dodgy dress sense and her rather gobby Northern enthusiasm and got offers everywhere. She said she was the one on the tours hounding the tutors with all the daft questions and being really impressed by all the creative resources and facilities.

I agree Tinkly. As DD did not do the Foundation, it was a lot of work for A levels and portfolios all at the same time. She had different portfolios too because the LCF course was not the same as the others she applied for. Very many late nights! I think this is tough when compared with many other courses where no-one asks you anything and you do not have to justify what you did, how you did it, what your inspirations were and how you experimented before you achieved success!

If your DC know what they want to do and have a good portfolio then IMO the Art Foundation is a waste of time. DD has just started a theatre design degree and was sure she wanted to do that before starting Foundation. She also had a very poor experience at CCW (Camberwell) and it put her off UAL for good. Very underesourced, a lot of students with no English (who were totally ripped off), and very little staff input.

Ditto LCF on DDs course. Some are good though!

Thanks again, so useful. Bubbles when you say some are good, are there any which have a particularly good reputation for foundation?

Also, does anyone have experience of/views on the London College of Contemporary Arts? Looks as though the foundation diploma's awarded by Pearson - does that mean it's a private college? I realise that may mean financial implications, but does anyone have any info on how it's 'regarded' by the degree providers? Bubbles did your dd look at it at all (I see it does some fashion courses)?

I don’t feel I can comment precisely on foundation courses in terms of quality as DD didn’t do one but I think you should look at where DCs go after doing them. I would certainly look at facilities, the art their students do and the enthusiasm of the lecturers. If students don’t go on and get into good degree courses, then question the quality of the foundation course. You want to know that portfolio prep is paramount.

DD wanted a specific fashion course at LCF and we didn’t look elsewhere with any great enthusiasm for a fashion related course but DD also applied for Photography at Brighton, Bath and London College of Comminication and another course at Leeds - I forget the exact title! Leeds didn’t want a portfolio. They offered on personal statement and grades. Brighton never gave her an offer but didn’t say no either. She never heard from them (waited until 30 April) after her interview in February. Bath and LCF said yes after portfolio submission and interview. Never heard anything at all from LCC. So a mixed bag. She got the one she wanted - LCF.

I think going to open days and having a good look around helps. You want to ensure your DC is going to work effectively and not doss around!

Thanks bubbles - very useful once again!

So having looked further, it seems as though there are several 'private' colleges offering foundation courses as well - eg London College of Contemporary Arts, and City and Guilds of London Art School. LCCA seems to be Pearson accredited, and C and G are UAL? (I think.) They charge fees to all including 18 yr olds but I am thinking may be a good way in if unsuccessful getting into elsewhere.

The key of course is whether they are well regarded and, crucially, lead to good degree courses in the UK - and as you say the only way to know this is to look at the leaver destinations! A key question for open days...

If you look at Central St Martins, they have a steam for art specialisms and one for general. All who complete the course are guaranteed a place on a course at UAL. I would consider how useful you think this is over a private course. I think the C&G Art school is in Kennington but it’s not very big.

Yes, guaranteed place at UAL is certainly extremely useful! (I appreciate it won't necessarily be on your first choice of UAL degree course however.)

Plus, if UAL are guaranteeing places on the degree course to all their foundation students, do they really have much room left for many students applying from elsewhere?

I think one reason for doing a private course would be that it's easier to get in (to be blunt.) So if you don't get an offer from state courses, that's the answer. But not if you can't then get on a university degree course! Eeek.

My dd and I are looking into this too. There seems to be a lot of difference in what Uni's offer in the way of course content and how they organise the degrees. We have looked at Bournemouth Arts Uni - they offer 2 foundation courses, art or media based. or 4 year degrees straight into your chosen subject - so starting in year 0. Norwich Arts Uni also do 4 year degrees. Leeds do 3 years with optional foundation. Birmingham City do 3 or 4 year degrees - year 0 which is multi skilled so you can find your strengths/interest before you specialise. So if you go straight into a degree - 3 or 4 year - then it is all funded by student finance. if you do stand alone foundation year and you are 18 when you start then the course is free but accomodation must be paid privately. Dd did also look at UAL and liked it but decided living in London wouldnt be that good, digs looked grotty and lot of travelling each day

The UAL digs are absolutely not grotty. Some of them are virtually new! So I’m not sure what she looked at! However the nice ones are expensive - it’s London!

The Foundation courses take fewer students than the degrees. The foundation students apply for all sorts of degrees so they spread out so to speak. There should be opportunities for students with foundations done elsewhere.

Also, they’ll take you if the portfolio is good enough wherever you do a foundation! When DD took her portfolio in, some had a small A4 folder with them as a portfolio. It’s a fair bet they didn’t get a place.

Hi @Everincreasingfrequency

A long time ago I did an art foundation course. I loved it. Ok I'm talking about then not now but it's still relevant as I was an art teacher too and advised all my students to go for an art foundation.

I had a level art from school and had been able to spend quite a bit of extra time in the art dept at school but not of the intensity that you would on a foundation course.

Doing a foundation broadened and deepened my knowledge of a range of art areas and gave a really thorough grounding of art history and how it related to social and economic history. They took us to art galleries, the theatre etc and gave us a good grounding in art and culture

My art teacher had pushed me to apply probably for the reasons I mentioned - that immersion in it. I did my foundation in my home town - I don't know if it was a good or bad course - but I know the tutors worked hard with us. They gave us that intensity of experience and then helped us decide what area to develop our work in and then helped us to work out our future study or career direction. I got into Camberwell, and after my degree and I got offered a place at the Royal College of art but decided to get a PGCE instead, and then went onto be an art teacher I still do my art and have work in exhibitions.

As an art teacher I advised all my artistically talented students to do a foundation course.if financially viable. Even if you choose not to go to do an art degree at uni and go on to do something else you have that experience and thorough grounding in art. Some of my colleagues went from foundation to work in the art industry like graphic printing fashion etc
To me it was a wonderful enlightening experience that I was very fortunate to have and I was lucky to have the parents that allowed me to do it.

Thanks all again! That's a really good explanation of the value of art foundation - and I can certainly see that it's worth doing even if you go on to do something completely different. If you are lucky enough to get a place, that is. Hence my questions about the private courses - although having looked into City and Guilds School of Art (one of the private ones) a bit further, it sounds pretty competitive to get in!

Re:
"some had a small A4 folder with them as a portfolio. It’s a fair bet they didn’t get a place."
That's interesting - I know zip about portfolio requirements I must admit, but I think I have seen references to 'quality not quantity' - should they perhaps be taken with a pinch of salt? (Well obviously quality is required, but maybe quantity also!)