Advice on Chemistry degree courses

[loveisenough]

My DS is currently studying A Levels in Chemistry, Biology and Maths and thinking about doing a Chemistry degree although he isn't totally sure. I wondered if anyone has practical experience of chemistry or other chemistry-related degree courses, would you recommend particular courses and is it better to go for a course with a placement - some are five year courses!

Well he has sat down this afternoon and had a good look through courses and booked some open days over the next few weeks. Thanks again for all of the advice, it has certainly helped clarify things for me - I only have knowledge of arts degrees!

Thanks for this .... my DD is about to embark on exactly the same A Levels and probably wants to do a Chemistry-based degree. She could do physics instead of biology A Level but she doesn't like/trust the physics teacher.

Avoiding a bad teacher is, IMO, a very valid reason to decide between physics and biology as the third subject.

greencatbluecat - in case this is useful, my DS has found Biology no harder than GCSE but just a ton of information to learn and remember, whereas the Maths and Chemistry are harder but more interesting in his opinion. He was wishing he had taken Physics instead but having spoken to him as we looked at courses, I think he is happy with having taken Biology instead as he enjoys it more.

My DS is a couple of years behind yours but is interested in Biochemistry too. Or something similar like Microbiology, Biomedical Science, Immunology. Glasgow Uni demands a minimum of BBB at A-level but most entrants have at least AAB for Biochemistry, similar for other similar degrees.

Apologies for overuse of "similar".

DD uni friend did a chemistry MSc at Leeds with a year in industry at Rolls Royce. Loved it. I don't think the placement year, which was paid, related to his degree specifically.

I’m 15 years out of date now, but agree with PP that there’s more maths/physics in a chemistry degree than biology related stuff. Depending on which he prefers more he could maybe consider a biochem related degree. Possibly pharmacy? Although that’s more limiting in terms of career choice.

Someone on my course did a joint honours with chemistry and maths, he did very well with it after graduating.

When I graduated most chem graduates went into accountancy! It’s a very useful degree that leaves career choices wide open. As others have said it’s full on though, he’ll have 9am starts. I had two full days a week in the lab, 9-5. That can make working around his studying a challenge.

Thanks @loveisenough !

My DD is about to start a chemistry degree. These were her views so don’t blame me for her prejudices, For pure chemistry, she said Oxford is the best university followed closely by Imperial, Durham, Nottingham and York. Imperial offered my DD A*AA but were in clearing this year for AAA. She loved the Nottingham chemistry department but hated the city. Apparently Loughborough have good science facilities and make lower offers. If you want a more prestigious uni, Bristol make offers aroun AAA but are often in clearing at AAB. She also quite liked Bath. She was put off Warwick because of the boring campus and they do not offer chemical engineering so she felt they weren’t really serious about chemistry. Exeter offer biochemistry but not pure chemistry so again she felt they were not a serious department. Let me know if you have any other questions.

The thing I'd disagree with there is 'they do not offer chemical engineering so she felt they weren’t really serious about chemistry' - I've never heard of chemistry departments having anything to do with chem eng or vice versa. And indeed, of her top 5, neither Durham nor York do chem eng, and I'm not sure oxford exactly does either.

In terms of rankings - league tables differ, but the international QS rankings for U.K. chemistry put the list as Cambridge (ie their NatSci), oxford, imperial, Manchester, UCL, Durham,Warwick,Bath, Bristol, Nottingham, Birmingham

www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/university-subject-rankings/2018/chemistry

Looks like Manchester are asking for AAB, which is surprisingly low.

Errol - I did say they were her prejudices! I think it was more the boring campus that she disliked about Warwick. The problem with NarSci she felt was that in the first year you has to study extraneous subjects which you may not be as interested in. She was really did not want to be forced to study subjects like geology or matsci. Plus you elect for physics natsci or bio natsci but chemistry seemed split between the two streams not not really core. At Oxford the focus is all chemistry.

I work for a company that takes Chemistry students for their placement year. We have people from a wide range of unis and competition for our places is fierce! Many do come back to work for us, or our competitors later, so it's definitely worthwhile looking at courses with placements.

Placement tip - Treat the selection process as a proper job interview. Our folks make a point of asking the receptionists for any feedback on who was polite or rude.

I needed to come back for some more advice from my original post!

DC applied to MChem courses with industry placement and has identical offers from Bristol, Bath, York and Warwick and slightly lower offer from Loughborough for a course with no placement opportunity.

Any advice on pros and cons for each? - he's keen on them all and can't decide!

First thing to say is, he shouldn't rush his choice, he's got some time before the deadline for deciding on his firm. Unless in the interim any of them come back with a lower offer (apparently that occasionally happens nowadays) then unless he really wouldn't want to go to Loughborough then I'd guess that would be his insurance?

The other 4 are all good chemistry departments. It might be useful if he could find out some more about the realities of the industry placements at each (maybe try StudentRoom?) - I've got the impression that it can be hard in some places to actually find an appropriate placement, not sure what happens then.

Thanks Errol that's a good point. I know at the Bath open day they did mention sometimes it is difficult to get placements.

Just to concur with what Errol said....

My DS is on a placement from his Chemistry degree at a different RG uni, however his is in a niche company totally unrelated to Chemistry!!! As well as applying for this, however, he applied for many Chemistry placements too, got a few interviews, and one offer, but even then he got more interviews/offers than most of his friends who applied.

I think out of 50-60 of his year who applied for a placement, less than 10 got one. His school friend doing Chemistry at a different RG uni applied for lots and didn’t get any offers. Both had got good A levels and DS had built up transferable skills through work, DoE, volunteering etc.

He got very little help from uni, especially in terms of leads to placement companies, he was just signposted to a generic website, presumably accessed by every other Chemistry student looking for a placement.

He was very disheartened with the experience, as were we, especially as I remember how much emphasis was put on the placement year at the open day. The impression was that getting one at a large firm such as Glaxo, AstraZeneca etc, or a firm abroad was easily possible. Two of his year did get to Glaxo, but apparently Astra only take from certain unis.

So, maybe your DS should take a closer look at his unis and ask about how they help with placements, and in particular whether they have links with any specific companies. Maybe ask them specifically how many students are on placement in this academic year, and where? Has he got any offer days coming up?

I should also say that a placement at DS uni was optional, so if he hadn’t have got his, he would just have carried on into 3rd year, as his unsuccessful friends did. The problem he did have, though, was that by the time that seemed a reality (his current placement wasn’t confirmed until March) all his friends had already sorted their 3rd year accommodation and he was looking at going into private halls with strangers. Fortunately that didn’t happen.

I am not sure what happens if the placement year is not optional - maybe the uni helps more with placing students? Another question for your DS to follow up maybe, especially given the comment from Bath.

Chemistry grad here, still an academic now although not in Chemistry.

The most interesting undergraduate courses will almost always be in the good research universities. For Chemistry, Oxbridge is not the best course (and I speak as someone who teaches there) - not enough time in the lab. Most first year chemistry courses are extremely broad and will encompass more stuff that feels like physics than chemistry in the lecture theatre, which is a shock to the system, and strong maths is essential. If I were looking to recruit a shiny new chemist, Imperial would be my first choice, especially for an organic/synthetic chemist.

By the second and third years, labs should be open most of the time and you fit your lectures/tutorials around them.

If he’s not sure about Chemistry as a career (or even a degree choice), then aim for the best known unis. It’s a very valuable degree, and combined with a good uni it will open loads of doors. About half of my year stayed in something sciency, and of the other half a sizeable chunk went into law/financial services or similar.

Also, with regards to something more biological - loads of physical scientists move over to biosciences, but not the other way around.

If he's unsure about who to Firm, offer holder/visit days are a great opportunity to find out more about each course in greater depth and chat to both staff and current students. Open days are necessarily less in depth as they are designed for a wider audience.
And don't forget that Chemistry is one of those subjects that does tend to be in Clearing for most Uni's so he could still change his mind again come August should he want to.

Thanks for the thoughts and advice. He has an offer day coming up at York, then Warwick and Bristol in March.

Really interesting about the industry placements, he will definitely need to look in greater depth at that.

I'd hope most of these courses the industry placement year is optional - it's impossible for academia to predict the availability of places several years hence. I took a quick look on the York website and it appears to be. I noticed they also offer an 'MChem with a year's in York' (ie research project within one of their research groups), and MChem with a year abroad - the first 3 years look to be identical to the MChem with a year in industry and I bet it's not set in stone which one the student does in the end. (And I think the BSc may well be just the first 3 years)

I'd guess that in many cases where a department offers several variations they'll start the same and then diverge sooner or later like this, which is good.

Another question is which year is the industry year - for Sophie's DS it was 3rd, York seems to be 4th. My gut feeling is that the later the better, it would be more like real research/job, and I'd have thought more attractive to industry to get people with more training already.

Yup... just found this on the York site (and I expect others are similar but check)
Our chemistry courses are designed to be flexible, so you can transfer between MChem and BSc courses at any time during the first two years. The title of your final degree will depend on the modules you take from Year 2 onwards.

My DD has friends at Bristol, Bath and Warwick. This is what she reports. Her friend studying chemistry at Bristol says the Department is lovely with great pastoral care. You need a hall in Clifton however to get the best from the city and ignore anyone who says go anywhere else. Friends at Bath love the uni and the city but can’t comment on chemistry. Her friends at Warwick again are not studying chemistry but views of the uni are mixed. They loved freshers week. However, now most of them seem to be going home or to visit friends elsewhere every weekend as nothing is happening in campus. A few seem to have struggled to make friends as they are in self-catering flats without much social space so unless you are lucky and make friends in clubs then it’s hard to meet a wide range of people. Hope that helps.