Fourth A level no longer considered advantageous for university application?

[SuperMoonIsKeepingMeUpToo]

We're very proud that our twin boys both did extremely well in their GCSE exams, so now we're in
the process of college enrolment. The college they want to go to (walking distance, friends going three, nice 'feel') is no longer offering further maths, which both boys wanted to do, citing universities no longer valued a fourth A level. Is this true?

They're also no longer offering the computer science A level one of the boys wanted to do and I'm now a bit suspicious about them withdrawing both courses, and am worried the college is going into a decline. (I've also heard on the grapevine they lost their head of maths, which might explain the withdrawal of further maths.)

Any inside knowledge, particularly regarding the value of further maths as a fourth A level, gratefully received! TIA.

When the fourth A level is FM, it's a normal entry 'requirement' but for m courses it's listed as desirable not essential (because some places do not offer it), but in practice for the more sought after courses, those who receive offers are taking it. The first year at university can be quite a bit more challenging for those who have not studied it

If your DC t o maths at university, then you might need to get them to consider other colleges. Or as a minimum, ensure they enter the UKMT challenge and actively seek other maths enrichment activities.

@Maisypops

That is so depressing to read. The lack of maths specialists is really concerning across the board. I have an acquaintance whose son taught himself Further Maths as there was no suitably qualified teacher. He got A* and is an incredible mathematician.

I think this is where elite institutions could make a huge difference that would impact accessibility. Skype tuition is easy to do and would be a way of reaching talented pupils without access to quality teaching.

Totally agree about quality over quantity.

Two posters have said their DCs were interviewed at Cambridge but did they get in? There is a difference between being interviewed and being accepted. You never really know why you are not accepted but if universities are looking at mathematicians at the highest level, then Step result is very much taken into consideration and obviously performance in questions set on the interview day. If there are no teachers available for FM one does wonder whether Step prep is available either. If not, options are limited.

However you can do Economics without FM. Just possibly not at top 5. Ditto Engineering. FM will always help but it’s not a requirement at many. The view you need to take OP, is what university your DS is likely to want, what subject, and whether FM is keeping his options wide open or whether just maths is good enough for his ambitions.

JuneMyNameIsJune
It is depressing.

Come to a school like mine and with the exception of timetabling issues (e.g. humanities in y7 might mean a historian teaches RS) your children get taught by qualified subject specialists and departments across the board have a wondeful mix of NQTs through to the highly experienced.
Go to a previous school I worked in and you're taking what you can get and hoping for the best.

Then you see what is coming through teacher training. Most trainees are great, but there's some genuinely poor people getting through in shortage subjects because there is a need for bodies in classrooms. One trainee I wasn't happy to pass because I had serious concerns about any child's education being in the hands of such an incompetent individual (lots of reasons which everyone agreed were significant issues which actually prevented learning). I was overruled. Apparently they showed some small hints of potential and were passed with the notes for their future NQT mentor on the transition paperwork.

Some people are teaching GCSE higher maths when they only have a B themselves and no higher study of the subject.

Two posters have said their DCs were interviewed at Cambridge but did they get in?

My DD has just finished her first year doing a MEng at Cambridge, she did maths, fm and physics ( dropped comp sci after AS). The FM really is essential there, and these 3 subjects seem to be a perfect trio for the high rating courses in engineering ( except chem), comp sci, physics.

Fourth A levels may not be valued, but for some courses FM is extremely valuable - not just to get the offer but so they aren't starting their uni course at significant disadvantage.