Oxford college reputations help

[laairventte]

Hi all,

My Dd is anxiousl awaiting her a level results, just as many in this board are.

She applied to study English at Somerville College.
She got an offer, but it is an “open offer”, which means that she will get allocated a college on results day if a place appears at another college due to someone missing their grades etc. If not Somerville will have to give her a place.

She applied there due to it being modern and down to earth, she couldn’t think of anything worse than an old college that make people like david cameron.

After a lot of terepidation, she firmed the open offer with the view to turn it down and go to Birmingham if faced with a college she doesn’t like the look of. I have left this decision completely up to her.

So trying to get my facts together, for the dreaded d day.

What colleges are renowned for being

High pressured
Posh
Conservative

While I agree that an Oxbridge degree, especially a humanities or arts degree differentiates job applicanst, I am kind of with MarchingFrogs here. There is an awful lot of snobbery on MN with regard to universities, especially Oxbridge.

An Oxbridge degree will certainly facilitate a high flying career in London or other large cities, but not everyone wants a high flying city or similar career, and some of the posters are rather patronising about it. Not necessarily on this thread.

OP, dd1 has just completed her first year at Oxford, at an old college and loved it. My dd has made friends from all backgrounds and it is not just Oxbridge that is high pressured, posh and conservative as you will find elements of it in other universities.

I like your post Lonicerajaponica. I have noticed on MN rather grandiose statements when it it comes to Oxbridge.

If about half of students come from 'ordinary' schools, I'm sure there must be a fair mix of social types ( maybe not culturally yet if statisitics are correctly interpreted) at Oxbridge, so then I'm sure OP your DD would come across a healthy mix of people to choose to hang out with.

There is so much hype and almost a mystical aura for those that know nothing much about Oxbridge that it stands to reason that young students can feel intimidated or scared by the prospect. It has taken my DD quite a while to feel she would/could enjoy Oxbridge if she meets her offer on Thursday. And I agree and have encouraged her to consider the wealth of opportunities it will open for her.

But this great job she is after as her aspiration at the moment is about making a difference in the world, doing something to help others, not necessary about earning a stellar salary. We need people in the city and such but we don't all aspire or over value highly paid careers which because of this are accrued high status.

I would say it's okay to be scared, might be nice to give it a go, sure Oxford must have so much to offer but we live in a big world with a range of other good universities too if it really isn't her place.

After a lot of terepidation, she firmed the open offer with the view to turn it down and go to Birmingham if faced with a college she doesn’t like the look of. I have left this decision completely up to her.

Apologies if someone else has picked up on this, but I've just re-read this bit and and wondering - under what circumstance does the OP's DD intend to be going to Birmingham? If she meets the conditions for her firm (Oxford), then that is where her university place is. Her insurance place (I assume at Birmingham) will have melted away, as it is no longer required. She may be lucky enough to get her firm to release her quickly and her insurance have her after all, but there is no guarantee that this will happen and if she really doesn't want to go to the allocated Oxford college, as far as Birmingham is concerned, she would be just another clearing applicant. It's not a question of, 'I don't like my firm any more, I'll take up my insurance place instead'.

Just to add a plug for Birmingham. I studied English there many moons ago. I have achieved more in my career than any of my friends who went to Oxbridge. When you graduate, the university you went to is less important than the degree class you achieve and what wider skills you can demonstrate. Then after you get your first job no employer cares which university you went to. The most important thing is that your DD is happy.

Yes, as MF says thesystem doesn't work like this. If you get your first place you go there. If you mess up you go to your second place although you can probably reject all places and take pot luck in clearing.

Dancing is not right that no employer cares which university you went to. It is used in many jobs right from teachers at top private schools - they list your institution on the websites, to barristers, solicitors and many other careers. Some people even pick those they will date based on status of institution on a linked in profile.

My daughter applied to College x. Was interviewed by them and 3 others and received an open offer, underwritten by St John's. Come results day, she ended up at College y.

She has had a great time and was very happy the way it turned out, especially as the reason she had originally been keen on College x was because of the quality of its chapel choir and they offered her a place in that anyway.

If she doesn't get Somerville, do encourage her to approach her new college with an open mind and to give it a try. Obviously if she ends up hating it, she'll need to consider her options, but that's probably unlikely.

My daughter's insurance offer was Birmingham, incidentally, and I think she would have been very happy there too!

Are you aware that Margaret Thatcher went to Somerville?

Dancingdreamer I would agree that a 2:2 from Oxford will not impress as much as a 1st from Birmingham, but looking at two candidates with a 2:1, recruiters are, on paper, going to favour the Oxford one. Of course this doesn’t mean they’ll be any good in the flesh, but it does get them seen.

As for the point about after your first job, employers not caring about your university, I agree that track record and achievements at previous job have to count for a lot, but (and conceding that the plural of anecdote is not data) I have had roles with four employers post university, and in each case my university loomed large. Now, three of those employers were international, so this will have skewed things for sure, but with the one national company, when I was up for a promotion, my phone interview consisted of two questions, one of which was, ‘and you were at Oxford, is that right?’

Oxford and Cambridge have an aura, this much is true. They don’t guarantee a high paying role post graduation, and plenty of my friends have ended up working for charities or setting up their own, having been imbued with a sense of social mission while at Oxford. I’ve kind of lost track of what point I was trying to make. Probably something about agreeing it’s not a given you’ll be making millions with an Oxbridge degree. Certainly couldn’t hurt!

Lobster please feel free to message me about whatever! And best of luck for Thursday...

All the English students I knew at Oxford where screaming lefties, and this was in the 80s.

I went to St Edmund Hall and public school types were so thin on the ground that I was continually teased for being "posh", having a Home Counties boarding school accent and wearing my pearls 24/7. I also was a Tory so I guess your daughter would have refused to talk to me out of utter abhorrence.
Luckily, I didn't have similar hang ups about making friends with lefties, northerners and state school alumni and so had a great time.

Your DD has done so well to get a place and deserves to get the fruits of her success. I hope she gets Somerville, as that is her preference, but I really am confident that there isn't a significant risk of a "wrong" college.

Thanks for the further responses. I hope not to be vilified, I was trying to give an accurate portrayal of Dds personality. It is correct to say that it would do her good to meet a wider range of people.

Having had another chat to her earlier she seems up for giving it ago, regardless of college. Perhaps it is just a front to hide her nerves for results day.

She spoke to Birmingham at offer holders visit day and they said there wouldn’t be an issue if she did decide... they seem to very much be recruiting with all the unconditionals and clearing.

Thanks again

There are a smaller number of employers looking at the university graduates come from. Even the Civil Service (famous in the past for its reliance on Oxbridge candidates) now hides the university people attended during their application process. Instead they focus more on aptitude tests to assess potential.

And no prizes for guessing what the upshot of that policy has been for the Civil Service Dancingdreamer.

Well a clue perhaps: the same upshot as for other prestigious 'university blind' recruiters.

And that's because it's not the name in itself which counts, it's the education provided by Oxford and Cambridge - that's what makes the difference.

And that's because it's not the name in itself which counts, it's the education provided by Oxford and Cambridge - that's what makes the difference.

No, it isn't.

The same qualities that got the student a place in Oxford and Cambridge in the first place - intelligence, passion, work ethic - not to mention factors such as socio-economic background and social connections are what really make the difference.

This is an interesting study in the US on the topic:
www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/04/what-is-an-elite-college-really-worth/521577/

This is an article in The Economist on which British universities do most to boost graduate salaries:
www.economist.com/britain/2017/08/12/which-british-universities-do-most-to-boost-graduate-salaries

In saying that, I am a fan of undergraduate education at Oxford and Cambridge and an Oxford offer should always be given serious consideration.

OP, best of luck to your DD in her decision.

abilockhart I think what you mean is that you disagree. My take on it is different to yours. Socio economic factors and social connections are irrelevant to a large extent between certain good unis, but Oxbridge success rates in firms which recruit 'university blind' are still higher. Also, passion has no impact on university blind aptitude tests, nor indeed does work ethic (unless you can't be fagged to finish the test). Intelligence is key of course, but Oxbridge teaching and what that does for an intelligent mind is what makes the difference, in my opinion.

I went to Hertford, and met some great people, most of them from state comprehensives. Still in touch with a lot of them. I had a boyfriend's at st John's, which often comes highest in the degree tables, and it seemed quite high pressure there. The colleges with a lot of private school kids are Christ church, Magdalene and Worcester.

So laairventte, is it to be Oxford, or Birmingham?