Prospective Medical student - when’s best to start work experience?

[Cherrypips]

My DS is going into yr 11 - he has a crammed school and extra-curricular life but knows he will need some relevant work experience for medical school applications. From experience, what have your DC found works best? Thanks

Yes but, and I did take it as a dig at those whose kids were happy to volunteer, you did say:

"There's much more to it than spending your sixth form in long term posts and one crucial thing for a medic is to know how to relax - DS and his friends honed that skill instead, which has a value all of its own."

Volunteering is not just a medical thing. It is required for those doing IB and DoE, and very importantly, for those applying to US Universities. Not everyone will want to volunteer. Not everyone will have the time or resources to be able to give time for free. And, as suggests, One minute you suggest that kids who volunteer are boring drudges, but you then go on to suggest that your DS met Medschoolrat's fourth category Other customer service roles where they can easily argue they picked up transferable experiences & skills (eg., working in ShoeZone) in spades.

My guess is that an applicant who does little other than sit and study and practice UKCAT will be in trouble. There are relatively few medic roles where you don't need communication skills.

Am I right though that the one rejection your DS got was from a medical school that places high value on activity within the community.

And am I right that you were a lawyer? DB is a lawyer and he uses a similar tone, though as a bonus throws in an occasional "herewith"

Goodbye
Your message that potential medics don't need to have done loads of volunteering and work shadowing is correct and it is a good message. I say the same thing myself but that doesn't mean you need to be so sharp about it. I think my point that extra experience and volunteering can be useful for some students is a fair one. It was certainly useful for my DC.

My go-to advice for any students who are thinking of medicine is to check out the Universities websites. Universities take great care to make sure that their entry requirements and admissions procedures are clear and transparent.

It's a shame so many of the Higher Education threads get so argumentative. It's not the best way to get any 'messages' across. I think it would also make the threads more friendly if posters weren't so desperate to boast about their own kids. It's tedious.

Echo the point about volunteering. At interviews it really pays of. And in writing personal statements. Start now.

DD applied to medicine and found that her lack of experience was a major factor in not being successful. She applied to local hospitals, pharmacies, GP surgeries and care homes. Due to the fact that she was under 18 the only place she could get experience was at a care home. She wasn't allowed to handle the residents or even make cups of tea! It seems that in our area they have very strict age restrictions.

She has now decided that medicine isn't for her (I agree), and is taking a gap year to explore other medical related possibilities.

Most medical students don't study at Oxbridge, therefore Goodbye's experience will be particular to her DC. DD didn't even consider Oxbridge because she didn't want to take the BMAT as well as UKCAT, and she didn't like the way they structure their degree. I understand that students don't get to see patients or get any clinical experience until much further on, and this didn't appeal to DD. Also the short, intensive terms wouldn't have suited her.

Some great advice/tips here.... there is just so much to consider and it seems such a game of strategy, luck and perseverance.

No Lonicera my experience is not confined to my own DC at all, it's far broader than that.

Wonky I think there's more of an issue with brittle posters than there is with boasty posters. If you're implying that posters who mention Oxbridge DC are boasting by definition, then that's just silly.

Needmoreslep you're a master of misinterpretation! I didn't imply anything about boring drudges that's pure fiction. You do have form for this though.

DS didn't take the UCKAT and didn't spend a huge amount of time on the BMAT - just read the book suggested at an Open Day. (In case that was a dig at me :)).

Some DC - like mine - need to earn money. So to some extent being able to volunteer is a luxury but there are some extremely interesting volunteering opportunities and working in a hospice such as the Marie Curie one where my mother died would be a privilege to my mind, not drudgery.

DS got offers from other med schools too. I don't think it's possible to identify why Bristol rejected him, there could be multiple reasons. He did look fairly certain for Oxbridge though, on grades, so it could just as well have been that.

Probably the volunteering though. Who knows!

"DS didn't take the UCKAT and didn't spend a huge amount of time on the BMAT - just read the book suggested at an Open Day. (In case that was a dig at me smile)."

Not a dig at all. DD had spent enough time revising for AS levels and didn't want to revise for any more science exams. Her academic ability is nothing like that of your DC.

No that was to Needmoresleep, not in response to you at all Lonicera. Needmoresleep mentioned DC who spent all their spare time practising for the UKCAT.

Your DD's choice not to take the BMAT and my DS's not to take the UKCAT were both completely valid choices. No point doing additional work for no purpose.

Admittedly DD did spend a lot of time practising for the UKCAT.

"Needmoreslep you're a master of misinterpretation! I didn't imply anything about boring drudges that's pure fiction. You do have form for this though."

Honestly all I have tried to do on these threads is share experience. I can accept I may be over sensitive, but advice on MN from a couple of regular posters, can come across as everything is easy as long as your DC are very very clever . You did, to be fair, suggest that your DS had been wise to skip volunteering to practice the art of relaxation., which suggested others were unwise.

Medical school applications in this household were not easy. DD did not get an offer till late March. A couple of her good friends did not get any offers. Skiiltan's link was interesting. A specific problem for DD was UKCAT. She is dyslexic with slow processing speeds so this sort of timed aptitude test (Grammar 11+, CAT etc) tends to be a nightmare. So it was a case of taking BMAT or looking at those Universities that give weight to the PS. She preferred doing stuff, to revising for BMAT.

Curiously, her school would have strongly advised against Stranger's DS' approach of not taking UKCAT. BMAT, especially if taken after the UCAS deadline, is a risk. But it worked for him. Whilst DD, with bags of volunteering/EC/shadowing/school leadership, got the course she wanted and one that suits her. The key thing to emphasise is that these are individual experiences. DDs volunteering would not have got her into Oxford (a good BMAT is all important - and though her school used to try to preach the need to have a wider offer, Oxbridge did not seem to be too bothered whether it was offered or not, seemingly preferring super-bright applicants with super grades). But she did not apply. Oxford seems to have suited Stranger's DS, and he might not have enjoyed a much more hands on, group working type of approach.

So to repeat the advice to OP. Different courses, different selection methods. It is worth considering carefully where your strengths and interests lie. Volunteering is one way of exploring this.

Wonky, interesting about the F1s dropping out. That accords with my Oxbridge friend suggesting that virtually none of her close peers had stuck with medicine. I wonder if Oxbridge gives you more City type options. I suspect that DDs course is structured in a way that you would pretty soon realise if medicine were not for you, so perhaps F1 and F2 wont be such a problem, and indeed perhaps that is why the (new) course is set up that way. DD likes it that way, though early struggles with the shift allocation system means she has early (useful?) experience of coping with NHS bureaucracy. .

Needmoresleep DD thinks she is mildly dyslexic, and has slower processing speeds than her peers. She "gets" stuff if she is given long enough to understand something. I think she would have achieved a higher UKCAT score if she had been given more time.

I have never followed this up as she has managed to cope so far. She did get more time for her A levels for other reasons though.

This is all academic now as she isn't going to reapply for medicine, but hasn't ruled our post graduate medicine, depending on what she ends up doing.

Lonicera, yes, I do know a boy who spent nine months practicing UKCAT daily, or that is at least what his mum told me when she phoned up to boast. (I am not sure there are enough practice questions but who knows.) And he got a fabulous score, right at the top of the cohort, which opened lots of doors.

There are lots of hurdles and unless you are exceptional you choose which ones to jump. DD would now advise aspiring medics to do more UKCAT practice than she did. But mainly because not having a good enough score, closes doors and reduces choice. But would not advise as much as he did. She got a bit stroppy about the different hurdles, and announced that if she were not good enough she was not good enough. The medical world's loss not hers. Thank goodness some schools still like old fashioned volunteering.

Lonicera, extra time should help. It makes a huge difference to DD in normal exams.

With UKCAT, the time pressure is such that almost all candidates are brain dead at the end of normal time. DD really has to concentrate so though she got extra time she was not really able to use it. She is a good mathematician/scientist and so normally ought to have sufficient aptitude. Her school felt she would do better at BMAT which tests learning, but for many of the same reasons as your daughter, did not want to.

My DD is going into year 11 in September and has a week lined up in a hospital, shadowing various departments. She'll do several of those, until she's old enough to gain experience in the departments she's not allowed to do yet.

She will attempt to volunteer in care homes etc, for a stretch of time, not just a week or two.

Most universities are more interested in what they've gained from the experience, rather than the experience itself.

Go to open days. Admissions tutors at the 6 we visited all mentioned part time jobs as important. One said working at McDonalds was better than a list of hospitals as it showed an ability to persevere, have patience and be resilient. Most interviews seem to be MMI format and one seems to be on work experience and what you have learned. Although Southampton still do panel and group discussion.
For my own DD, and her experience is just that, hers, she had a week at a GP and 3 days in a hospital. And 11 years volunteering at a horse charity. Oh and 2 part time jobs (because we are poor and she wanted a car and holidays - she's currently somewhere rescuing turtles in Central
America). She got 4 offers - although Sheffield never read her PS 😁.

Get some experience as they do need to know what they are letting themselves in for (my friends son did a week and decided he hated it). But it's not like vetinerary where it's vital to have shed loads.

And TSR is great for advice (just ignore the weird and over zealous people). The lovely Julien at Sheffield (go on their admissions thread) is really helpful. All of us on the 2018 thread have a little crush

Yes I'm the same Needmoresleep and all I do is try to share experience which has clearly been helpful to at least some people. I'm not bothered in the least by the snippy folk - their problem completely.

DS had a choice, actually, between volunteering and having a normal social life and chose the latter but you're right to point out that he had the volunteering substitute in his arsenal, in the shape of long term regular work in a cafe, doing all sorts of menial jobs eg dishwasher, loos as well as waiting on tables, so interacting with people for much of the shift. I didn't make that clear. It would have been decidedly unhealthy to spend two days of every weekend out, one working, the other volunteering and I'd have been dead against it. 'Practising the art of relaxation' came in the form of going to mates' houses and parties ie being an utterly normal 17 yr old. He wouldn't have sacrificed that, and quite right too.

As far as the Oxford course goes, I think you underestimate it a little. DS was exceptionally personable before he signed up for the course and it hasn't wrung any of that out of him at all. He's been surrounded by equally easy to get on with peers for the whole of his course, at least for the most part. This 'hands on/ hands off' thing is overstated hugely.

Goodbye

Lol, and there I was thinking you were the snippy poster. 🤨

BTW. I get that you are very proud of your kids. Do they know how much you talk about them online. My kids would be cringing if I talked about their not as impressive achievements to

strangers online. Especially as you post such identifiable information.

Thought this was to help someone applying for medicine ? If you're not interested then please feel free to leave.

mumsneedwine, I am not sure who you are referring to. Me? Wonky?

I found Wonky's earlier post about F1s and F2s interesting. I don't know how far advanced your DC is in the process, and whether they have had a smooth run, but as I said earlier, DD has been surprised at the drop out rate in the first year, given how difficult it is to get a place. Others (young doctors in particular) have warned that getting the place is the easy bit. It is a long treck and I, for one, am interested in what comes next. Relevent to the OP in that knowing what you are letting yourself in for through volunteering presumably reduces the risk. Volunteering to get the place is only part of why it might be a useful option for some.

If you think someone is breaking guidelines you need to report them. If not, asking people to leave threads does not seem helpful. As far as I can see you have Stranger suggesting one route into medicine, and Lonicera and I suggesting that it is not that easy for everyone, with some interesting posts by people with experience of admissions.

And do PM me if I am the problem. I am happy not to contribute if you don't want me to.

Wasn't directed at anyone. Just that someone asked for help with work experience and then it all seemed to get a bit tetchy. We have had a lovely time on the 2018 thread and feel we have helped each other so much with the application process and know lots of us want to pass on any help we can as it's not easy.