Oxbridge Applicants 2019

[evenstrangerthings]

The 2018 Oxbridge Applicants Thread was started at the end of August last year, but with many students now sitting internal school exams rather than public AS exams, many will have Year 12 results in hand and some will be starting to prepare for applications to Oxford or Cambridge University.

Let's support each other in supporting our kids through this process, which may involve extra exams, multi-day interviews and extra application statements.

Do feel free to join the thread, even if your DC is on the fence about making an Oxbridge application. It would also be great to hear from those who have been through the Oxbridge process before!

Irma - my DD did 3 A levels, an AS and an EPQ(for engineering not arts). The EPQ was, I think, valuable. Not at all in terms of forming part of the offer (it didn't, though one of her other 4 choices gave a small trade off in an A level grade for the A* epq) , but as a project in an area which interested her which was highly relevant to the degree she wanted to do. In her case it was an 'artifact' epq rather than the usual long written piece. It was useful as part of the material for her personal statement, a good demonstration of serious independent engagement in the field. I'm not sure if she was asked about it at any of her interviews but it could be useful in that context.

My opinion is that the sort of student who's likely to get an Oxbridge offer should positively enjoy doing an EPQ.

I'm making faintly discouraging noises about DD4 doing the EPQ. I don't think it's a huge deal either way and neither of us are that bothered (since I think it's relatively easy to knock up an EPQ with not too much effort); it's just a bit of a bore in so far as the tick box exercise aspect goes. I think 'serious independent engagement' is a bit of a stretch, at least for most kids. That's how it's marketed, but I don't think it's the reality.

The reality of an EPQ depends entirely on what the student puts into it! If they're doing it as a boring tick box exercise then you're right, they shouldn't bother. DD put a lot of effort into hers, because it was something absolutely in line with her 'passion' which wasn't available via an A level. For some, there will be other means to the same sort of ends but the EPQ can provide a very useful framework. In her case it helped impose 'project management' (specifying design and cost parameters, that sort of thing) - and also, which maybe only applies to 'artifact' EPQs, allowed her to use school facilities (eg she needed to etch a printed circuit board).

So...if the student can think of a suitable project they really want to do which can be done as an EPQ, then it can be a good option.

Well fingers have been seriously burned recently doing artefact EPQa Errol so that's the last thing I'd advise a DC.

EPQ's are far more a tick box exercise than a creative outlet. Kids can knock them up and get an A* with minimal effort. They can be passionate if they want but the cynical ones can be as cynical as they want too. Same end result.

That should read EPQs not EPQa.

Well, there you go, opinions and experiences vary. No burnt fingers here even literally with the soldering iron.

I remain dubious whether the cynic could make it as convincing a part of a PS or interview (which is, as I said, where it can be useful) as can the kid who puts the effort in and gets the kick out of it.

One board was very anti artefact a few years ago Errol, so I guess your DD was lucky.

My more cynical DC seemed to manage at interview just fine :)

As you say, experience will differ. My own view is that it's over egged and over rated as a qualification.

Over rated by parents that is, rather than by institutions. It's very useful to schools too, as a low cost qualification requiring very little teacher contact time - perfect for struggling state schools.

(Although - and forgive me if I've got the wrong end of the stick - I think your DD was at an indie? And indies tend to be very good at selling their chosen curriculum offer, while fee paying parents will naturally want to assume that they're paying good money for only the best).

She was at a girls GS, so neither an indie nor a struggling state school.

I don't rate the EPQ as a qualification (she didn't have her grade at the point she made her applications or had her Cambridge interview) - but yet I still say it can be a valuable different sort of learning experience.
Maybe she was lucky (or, perhaps, she made her luck!)

Well - the question arose from irma's DD not fancying any combination of 4 A levels. The extra A level would be a more valuable paper qualification if studying an extra subject she's not keen on doesn't negatively impact the grades of the main 3. She might or might not get more out of it than a project on something she's really keen on.

Incorrect Errol. All state schools and arguably especially grammars (with their low pupil premium numbers) are struggling financially. Not a single one of the grammars hasn't been struggling. The EPQ is perfect for grammars as a low cost option - possibly the ideal target market.

I actually feel a little despondent today for DD having read this thread and the 2018 one.

UNIQ genuinely gave her the belief and confidence to apply to Oxford, I feel that we are at the back of a very large queue, being a state school that doesn't have vast success at getting students there. The PS advice she's been given from school is different even to that which Oxford gave her.

Oh well, she's definitely the type that I imagine will thrive in any university environment and she's realistic in any event, she wants the experience of applying in itself.

PS is pretty much in its final stage, she's taken on board a couple of changes suggested from an earlier draft structurally but not content wise. DS, a grammar fiend has spent time looking at it, more time than a guy that claims he doesn't like her (, sibling banter), messing significantly with it now would probably undermine her confidence.

There, I'm over myself already.

(None of the above I'd dream of saying to dd).

Justanothermile simply having got to UNIQ means she has a good chance of success - don't feel despondent.

It wasn't struggling in terms of the advice given to specific pupils, though to be sure, it couldn't afford to run the A level she really wanted to do as her 4th subject (a tech one, systems and control) just for the two who wanted it that year. However, she did comp sci instead, so the EPQ was in addition to 4, not a cheap alternative to a 4th A level. The EPQ was in all cases one of the 'enrichment' options, but only allowed for the more able students, so they were mostly doing 4As.

I'm very much on the page that students who are able and want to do 4 A levels should be allowed to do so, but it doesn't sound like Irmas DD's sixth form is limiting them to 3, that's not the issue here (I realise it may be in many schools now, unfortunately). If someone only wants to do 3 subjects then I can't see any reason why doing an EPQ would be worse than doing nothing or an A they really didn't want to do.

The sense in which I used 'struggling' was purely financial.

And yes, it's not a bad qualification! It's just a bit meh.

Just - Oxbridge really do want to broaden access. I really don't think your DD will be at the back of the queue. It sounds as though she's got a great attitude which will indeed serve her well wherever she goes. I've said it before, there's nothing to be lost by applying, no shame for those who don't get a place (given the excess of worthy candidates versus places), much better do that than be left with that 'what if...'.

I certainly agree that casting around for an A level and doing it even though you're only doing it for numbers is a colossally bad idea Errol, in this new world of linear and more challenging exams.

Thanks both.

I've got over myself now. Places are few. Demand is high. Our circumstances are our circumstances and there little point in bemoaning that they are not different.

DD loved UNIQ and will find her people at university. We will all benefit from going through the process of an application in any event.

As an example, she found out about UNIQ via a forwarded email from her head of year, which had come from the admissions team for the course saying 'this might be a good experience'.... It was DD who applied on the off chance.

All fun!

Competition is stiff, Justanothermile, but you have to be in it to win it! The competition is brutal for all candidates, and of course worse than brutal for some subjects.

When ds went to his interview the assembled 40 candidates were informed that there were 8 places. They had all done well to get that far, but the odds were (save for being picked up by another college) most were going to be unsuccessful. (In fact all 40 might have been unsuccessful, but the pooling thing is for a later discussion!) Ds said it was actually a good thing to say, as you definitely need a reality check as to your chances.

Regarding the PS, what I recommend is looking on TSR at ones people have posted who got in . Ds went to a comprehensive school, and I knew in my waters that their advice re PSs was pants. Loads of guff about Duke of Edinburgh, positions of responsibility and wotnot (ds has never joined anything in his life) which is not what Oxbridge want to see in a PS.

Loads of guff about Duke of Edinburgh, positions of responsibility and wotnot (ds has never joined anything in his life) which is not what Oxbridge want to see in a PS.

Nailed it, IrmaFayLear.

Thanks irma. I feel that's the best was to look at it, that it's astonishingly tough to gain a place for everyone. However, that there's no harm in having a bash and that hopefully Oxbridge will be well aware of circumstance, if context is relevant.

DD's school told her to talk about the content of her subject syllabus for her A level choices, rather than her wider reading on a subject she doesn't currently study but will be her degree choice!

And extra curricular....

It seems a shame though that some potentially great applicants will be missed because of advice such as this, but that's an entirely different subject and discussion.

DD's school told her to talk about the content of her subject syllabus for her A level choices, rather than her wider reading on a subject she doesn't currently study but will be her degree choice!

How odd. Maybe if there's something in her A levels which is helping her develop the skills relevant to her degree subject that might form part of the story. Similarly, extracurricular activities might be mentioned if they have some relevance.

It seems a shame though that some potentially great applicants will be missed because of advice such as this, but that's an entirely different subject and discussion.

You'd hope interviewers would be able to read between the lines of a gauche PS, especially if it's from someone who's done well in their aptitude tests.