Oxbridge Applicants 2019

[evenstrangerthings]

The 2018 Oxbridge Applicants Thread was started at the end of August last year, but with many students now sitting internal school exams rather than public AS exams, many will have Year 12 results in hand and some will be starting to prepare for applications to Oxford or Cambridge University.

Let's support each other in supporting our kids through this process, which may involve extra exams, multi-day interviews and extra application statements.

Do feel free to join the thread, even if your DC is on the fence about making an Oxbridge application. It would also be great to hear from those who have been through the Oxbridge process before!

"She said she has never really recovered - so near yet so far sad ."

That post below related to someone with a dropped grade. btw.

Off topic of thread , but I do think our system of applying before grades are known can be very brutal for those who miss them - even worse when the remark goes up and it's too late to get on the course, as seems to have happened to at least one mner's dc this year - not Oxbridge.

For some people missing the first choice can be a bitter blow - I think it's useful to keep thinking until results day in terms of ''he's hoping to go to A (firm) or B (insurance)' .

Wasn't there some discussion a few years ago about changing the system to bring a levels forward slightly, and have applications in the summer? I think a think tank proposed it because it thought it would encourage wider participation in the competitive universities and courses.

I can see the practical problems (school references etc being done in the school summer holidays), - maybe that was why the idea has never got off the ground. (Also would make it harder for interviewing universities and subjects, - would require a complete change in timetable.)

There is always the possibility of taking a gap year and applying with known grades - I gather quite a lot of would-be medics do this. Presumably they aim to get loads of relevant experience during that year too. It may not be such a good idea for some subjects (especially those with a high maths content) but it may suit some students.

Just thought I would catch up after afternoon of demolishing MIL sheds.
I am fine Hingle not depressed at all, apart from how this thread went into how easy it is to get a degree bollocks.
For your information I left school with only CSE and we are sending DS to univerity 1st in family. If he or brother had the chance of Oxbridge I wouldnt want him too after reading this thread. Last years by YBBK yes, this one no way.
Finally I am a trustee of a small education trust/charity set up in 1880 to pay for local village chidren to access the village school. Seeing the government now pays, we do 2 things first is provide all year 6 students with either an Atlas or Dictionary for secondary school. Second we provide bursaries upto £5000 to first year students who used local village primary and then used local state secondarys. They can use the £5000 to help in anyway, except tuition fees.
We are trying to encourage more to look at Oxford or Cambridge or London. Most go local or stay in Yorkshire. We did fund a girl to Lancaster and a boy to Newcastle.
All are 1st timers to university.
I only lurk on these threads to try and bust myths with the kids. But the more I read the more I understand why our kids dont want to try it. We in 138 years have had 1 boy to Cambridge from our village school. His parents are both ex Cambridge and where new to the village after leaving London. So dont really count. So actually not one locally born person has every gone. How embrassing is that. Compared to all you lot.

So how lovely you all have multiple Oxbridge/London students. If this thread is supposed to support parents of kids who know little, its the opposite. I wont be advising any one we know to read it. I send them to kittens 3 threads instead.
Good night

user my DD1 was brought up in our rural village and was the first person to attend a particular Oxford college set up in 1610 by a wealthy local woman precisely for the benefit of local 'scholars'. It took almost 400 years to get anyone from the village to attend, of either gender. DD1 was that person. We are not down shifters and so do actually 'count'. My father arrived in this country as a refugee with not a penny, just a suitcase, and was lucky to make a future for his family through education. I too am a trustee of an institution whose purpose is overwhelmingly concerned with social mobility through the power of education. I think it's unwise for anyone to think they have a monopoly of virtue, because they almost certainly don't.

I completely don't understand how a trust can justify giving £5k to first year students but preclude any of that large sum from off setting tuition fees. £5k is more than the very generous Oxford Opportunity Bursaries even. Why would a student not be able to use part to reduce tuition fees? Very odd.

Why would a student not be able to use part to reduce tuition fees? Very odd.

Because to use it for that purpose would, to some extent, be money down the pan. Reducing the amount that they will only have to repay in controlled amounts at some time in the future and may never need to repay in full, by using up money that can be used for things that they will still need in the here and now for their time at university. Books, accommodation, food, field trips. Possibly?

I just don’t believe we’re all reading the same thread somehow. I don’t think anyone has said getting a degree is easy.

user, I’m glad you are not depressed, and hopefully not distressed either. May I ask you, please, to refrain from calling the posters on here ‘you lot’? I’m finding it quite othering. We can all joke about the Mumsnet hive-mind, but it doesn’t exist, and it is clear that all the people on both this thread and last year’s one have a diversity of background and experiences.

MarchingFrogs that’s a really good point, I’d never thought of that!

goodbyestranger
Because we are a charity, that's the rules, and like MarchingFrogs says it's to assist with books, printers, topping up accommodation fees and to buy things like materials. Tuition fees aren't debt, they are in all but reality a graduate tax, so they will pay them of themselves. I spend hours, each of the last 5 years I have been involved, posting info leaflets through the post-box's of the 4 villages our school covers, begging people to apply for the bursaries. We aren't as a trust allowed to approach students they have to approach us, officially in hardship ( we ignore that bit). We have £10000/ year to assist. Up to 6 years ago it hadn't given a bursary out since 1971, we have given 22 out in 5 years, we break share the amount equally. We funded a local girl to Ontario, for a in degree year, 2 years ago.
We have looked at funding Masters or PHD's, but can't as they are seen as elite, by the trust's rules.
Sorry for you lot, , I am a thick northerner, and sometimes the collective poster on this thread drive me mad.

I think many of the posters on this thread don't realise your own privilege , I know some like YBBK and others have children at comprehensives, though some of these posters have other DC at grammars.
For background in 13 years my DC1 has never attended an Ofsted good school, let alone a outstanding one. Of the 4 nearest secondary's, 1 is in SM, ours is inadequate and converting to an academy, 1 is just out of SM, and the 4th is a new converter after 3rd SM rating.

The throw away comments on here are so depressing and hurtful
IRMA, if want to breeze a degree you go else where, they are so much easier, than Oxbridge, every DC I know works bloody hard for their places at University, whether RG or Leeds Beckitt.
Hingle I got X number of A's and B's, shit for my school, but got in.
Really good for you, at our schools you would be top of top set
Hingle you don't realise for a local kid reading that, they will think I thick and will never fit in, so wont apply
goodbyestranger You post about 7? kids going, we cant get one, so if you can get 7, why would a child at a poor school bother, it will read to them that Oxbridge is a close circle.
Outreach, sorry sending state grammar school kids to SM schools, is like sending an alien.
Finally regulars posting my child got in dropping a grade, is wrong, especially if you had 3 already, WHY? because it either very rare or not true, 2 kids in our school applied to Oxford and one to Cambridge, the Cambridge failed STEP went to Newcastle, the 2 at Oxford got AAB, not AAA, all at a failing school, 1 in care, all where sent to there insurance.

Sorry, many of you, with the greatest of respect, really don't get it.
You have even forced YouBadBadKitten off here, and they have been so welcoming on their Oxbridge 2018 threads.

From a complete outsider, with no vested interest (DC1 off to University of Lincoln in 3 days {gulp} and DC2, lucky if he gets 4's in this years GCSE's) it would seem many one here would like to keep it a close shop, after all it's their kids who lose out

"Why would a student not be able to use part to reduce tuition fees?"

One of the many things mn has taught me is that paying a small part of the tuition fees upfront may be the worst of all worlds. If you are one of the many students who will not repay the loan over the 30 year period, paying part of the fees upfront makes no difference at all to your total repayments - so arguably from the individual's point of view that is £5k down the drain! (I suppose there is an argument that you reduce overall public expenditure.....)

If you will pay off the loan then yes you will repay slightly sooner, but set that against not having the £5k while at university which may mean you can study instead of working p-t in term time, buy more books, replace laptop, travel to relevant places etc - and it is still not obviously the best use of the money.

Of course that reasoning doesn't apply if you think that the govt will change the terms so that the debt is no longer written off after 30 yrs. Which can't be ruled out!

The point I have made with reference to my grades user is that for a candidate from a top school they were completely indifferent compared to my peers. Therefore, I would strongly urge people with similar grades not to be put off by their top tier schools saying ‘you stand no chance.’ Further to this, surely then in a world of contextual offers, getting a smattering of decent grades in the subjects relevant to the degree you are applying for should be cause for optimism. Your argument doesn’t make sense to me - if someone got my grades, and were from a poor performing school, then wouldn’t they be very likely to be invited for interview? I’m not saying I have somehow gamed the system, I’m trying to say, apparently very poorly if it can be this horribly misconstrued, that you don’t need 13 A* to go to Oxbridge.

For the rest of your comments, I can’t help you. People on here trying to keep a closed shop? How would that even work? You’re extrapolating a germ of nothing into some overarching masterplan. It reads bizarrely.

Go read the other thread. Do you see my positively lunatic encouraging of the applicant to my college? Of the parent of the Classics applicant? Of the poster with a boy who was at my school? I wish everyone could have a crack at Oxbridge. People like me have driven OYBBK off this thread? What an unbelievable, unmerited accusation.

I apologise evenstrangerthings. Your OP says Let’s support each other in supporting our kids. I’m going to return to doing that instead of defending my right to contribute.

Have I mentioned that if your DC is on the fence about things, they should read Classics? It’s got literature, language, history, philosophy, art, architecture, philology. It’s got it all. In the immortal words of Nike, goddess of victory: Just do it.

user, I don’t know if you have direct access to the students, but encourage them to apply for the UNIQ or Sutton Trust summer schools. These are specifically for state school children and all contextual data is taken into account.

Dd applied this year, no help from school, just a one line email about the course forwarded by the HofY. She was successful and had the most amazing time. And the week made her believe she deserved and was worthy of being there and applying to Oxbridge. But she did it herself, I wasn’t really at fait with the courses, it wasn’t on my radar.

As I said, my Fil was a miner, my side of the family are steel from the North East. Dd is at a state school.

Assumptions can definitely be made on both sides though. Let’s encourage each other.

Today, Dd is meeting the Head of Year, to discuss her application, she isn’t comfortable with leaving it until the week before deadline to submit. I wonder if they will be glad to see the back of her?😁

I think that people don't apply to Oxbridge for a number of reasons including:
They want to be in a different location, like London
They prefer the course elsewhere
They think they won't get in
They think it's full of posh people
They think it'll be relentless hard work and no fun
They think it's more expensive

I think people on this thread have been trying to dispel some of the myths. the college accommodation, travel bursaries and other support made Cambridge much, much cheaper than the redbrick DD2 is going to.

DD1 ( we're from a northern city ) thought that she wouldn't get in and that it would be relentless hard work. To her surprise, she got in and managed to enjoy other activities and a social life throughout. She knew that she'd have to cut down extracurriculars in her final year to even have a shout at a first. That was not something she wanted to do but she managed a good 2.1. I would hope that's not demoralising but encouraging that a bright-but-not-super-brainy person can enjoy uni life and still come through.

*au fait.

I should add, she had to work hard too. All-nighters at times and there was plenty of stress. Not a breeze, just a balance.

Want to post to all those that hover, as I often do, and have undecided DC as was my DD last year.

My DD was not going to apply for many of Cathyandclare reasons (like your post. ) I think she felt intimidated and still does a bit.

We did a lot of research on the Oxbridge websites which were great, TSR and here. Think this was a good move to help her understand what it might be like.

She decided to apply , thought she did not so well in some areas of application but got a place and is giving it a go feeling very lucky.

"I think that people don't apply to Oxbridge for a number of reasons including:"

yes to all those reasons cathyandclaire - and an additional one is that the application process will take extra time (and add more stress) in what is a very busy first term of Yr 13.

An extra exam (and yes some mners dcs will have done no practice at all and still got in, but many applicants don't feel that is an option!); and if you get past that an interview process requiring preparation and in some cases several days away and possibly a lot of time travelling. (I think that may not be so true in all cases, but certainly in some.)

Some just decide they are better off not being distracted by that. (I know other some universities may also have exams/interviews, but those universities also can be avoided if necessary!)

I know there is a classic response to that - if can't stand the heat, etc. But as a factual reason for not applying I think it is not uncommon.

"I know that it's hard for middle class parents to accept that their dc got into Oxbridge because of a queer pitch but it's true."

I don't know who you are referring to but I'm very aware of unfair inequalities and come from manual workers/working class background myself. I also have DC at other unis and one with DSA.

My reason for posting is because this thread is to support those who want to apply so I thought I'd encourage.

The unfairness of those who get into RG unis being often from the white middle class is something that needs addressing but that was not what I thought this thread was for and am worried the talk will put people off.

Sorry OP
Anothermile
No access to students in school, used to be parent governor at village school, gave up to heart breaking, deciding which teachers to make redundant, which classes to merge, which off music, PE or arts we cut. Ended up as trustee to the trust to save it from been wound up, lack of trustee's and failing to meet it's charitable needs.
So we just give out hardship loans, to any local child.
Last 2 years we have funded 5 Dc to use buses to FE colleges, and also 10 apprenticeship holders buy equipment, access a moped to enable them to get full benefits.
Oxbridge is a pipe dream for us.
I apologise if I upset certain poster's but I think people really don't understand the barriers and often don't realise their best intentions can actually do damage.
I totally apologise to the OP,
I leave you all to it, good look to the OP and anothermile's DC, I really hope they get in and if not find their true calling

I took the 'mc' comment as general rather than aimed at anyone specific. It is true, but it's not the fault of the unis, the inequalities come earlier. And the thing many people who've had some experience really want to do on threads like this is to try, in a small way, to redress the balance if possible - give some advice, encouragement , links etc to eg people who's DC aren't in schools which support their aspirations.

The path to hell is paved with good intentions, I'm pretty sure just about everyone posting had nothing but those but somewhere along the way got into nitpicking or being defensive.... this thread is about supporting applicants ... I shall try to remember that myself.

So.... 14th sept, there is time to write that PS and apply, there is time to prepare for the entrance tests (they're not meant to be burdensome or require tutoring!, there's only a couple of sample papers available) and there is nothing to lose by giving it a shot.

user - thanks for the reality check, and it sounds like you're doing incredibly useful stuff with that trust.

Well I have always found it supportive. I appreciate ds has little chance of getting in but it is nice to have a bit of advice along the way.

user I realised that the trust's terms must preclude the use of the money for fees as soon as I posted, but couldn't actually be bothered to get the thing deleted.

There's an extraordinary flip of logic in assuming that my DC got places at Oxford because they're privileged. It's unusual to have so many siblings at Oxford (well ok, a record I think, certainly for state school DC), but that is borne out of their being bright rather than being privileged. They're all very bright indeed, I can see that now, looking back. I knew that they were quite sparky but never expected them to decant into a top uni in the way that they've done - but it's fine. Incidentally I know exactly how to measure privilege - I mean on the educational and social scale - in very great detail and don't need lessons in it. I could possibly give them. I'm not going to get drawn into personal detail but it is actually offensive to say their places came cheap because they were privileged. That is very far from the case. As I say, it doesn't help your cause to be so limited in your understanding or indeed rude. Perhaps if you want to discuss things you could be a little more civil, and a little less personal.