Oxbridge Applicants 2019

[evenstrangerthings]

The 2018 Oxbridge Applicants Thread was started at the end of August last year, but with many students now sitting internal school exams rather than public AS exams, many will have Year 12 results in hand and some will be starting to prepare for applications to Oxford or Cambridge University.

Let's support each other in supporting our kids through this process, which may involve extra exams, multi-day interviews and extra application statements.

Do feel free to join the thread, even if your DC is on the fence about making an Oxbridge application. It would also be great to hear from those who have been through the Oxbridge process before!

That's good advice for any CV type thing. DH, who's done quite a bit of interviewing of job candidates reckons that if you can, include something which may elicit a question you want to answer - but this may be overthinking it a bit. Maybe that's one for the would-be PPE types.

I wish I'd had some of this advice when I made my (unsuccessful) application to Cambridge 40 years ago - I was truly clueless. But - DH and I both went to schools which didn't help prepare anyone for the entrance exam, which was a different beast to today's aptitude tests. He didn't attempt an application at all, and still has lingering 'what if' regrets - I can shrug my shoulders and know that at least I tried.

I'm not sure about the additional section of PS being honest and DD hasn't mentioned it.

My only experience of PS's so far has been for DS (who is going to university this year) and the strong impression from most of his open days was grades matter and not much else, he's not Oxbridge. Although, he's going to study Maths, which is clearly an entirely different subject to Archeology, the caveat being his chosen university did actually compliment his PS in their offer letter. Certainly though we felt grades were the significant and overriding factor.

Dd definitely knows to be an expert on anything with regard to work submitted or information contained in her PS. Whether she'd be able to weave in something she actually would like to be grilled about might be another matter.

I think after consideration, the universities are not stupid, they know whose applying to Oxbridge by the timing of the application. There were places in clearing for all the choices she will make this year. She has higher grade predictions than their standard offer grades. So it's statistically unlikely she wouldn't get an offer from one of these at least.

She's going to make an open application at this stage has no particular preference for colleges.

"I think after consideration, the universities are not stupid, they know whose applying to Oxbridge by the timing of the application."

I think a pp has mentioned below that some schools encourage all students to apply early - perhaps to get it out of the way, perhaps because the schools (wrongly?) think there is an element of first come first served (though I know there isn't supposed to be a disadvantage to applying late.....)

Is that a disadvantage for those who may be wrongly 'suspected' of applying to Oxbridge when they haven't?! At least for those applying to those universities who don't want to be an insurance choice (Durham, maybe, though they can get round it by making an equivalent offer so that it's a pointless insurance choice?)

Sorry, am completely on the wrong thread here! - dc who won't be applying to Oxbridge, wondering about timing - but the pp below got me thinking and posting.....

I don't know whether it's correct or not, but DD said she'd been told that Durham alone might have a problem with early applicants. Despite that, IIRC one of her pals who got an offer for Cambridge maths did have Durham as her insurance - the a level requirements might have been the same but the big difference was STEP. So I don't think there's a hard and fast rule - and of course they've got 5 slots so everyone should be able to make a realistic set of choices which will get a spread of offers which includes their truly preferred 2.

Anecdotal, but my nephew and two of DS's mates applied to Cambridge and are all going to or are currently at Durham. One Maths and one Physics. So Durham seemed fine with making offers for these subjects at least.

Clearing had an raft of places, even from those universities you might consider would fill their places easily, even for the STEM subjects, I looked for Maths and Bath, Bristol, Birmingham, Leeds etc all had places. I'm cynically not sure they can afford at present to turn excellent candidates down. I know this years cohort nationally was an extremely low birth year, next year is only very slightly higher.

Who knows, I've no solid evidence for this of course.

Two maths, I clearly don't need to apply for a degree in the subject.......

Hmm, though even if you apply after 15 October universities may still 'suspect' you of having applied to Oxbridge, as you can add your other choices after you've put the form in.

Though surely many many candidates with high GCSEs and high predicted grades don't apply to OB, I assume!

I wonder if anyone ever puts on their personal statement 'I have not applied to OB'! That may be the only way of providing absolute certainty...

With regards to Cambridge they are asked to complete an SAQ after they submit their UCAS form. They can write in a mini personal statement on it (but aren't required to and it doesn't prejudice their application if they don't because often additional info isn't needed). It's an opportunity to be really specific about how the course Cambridge offers is a perfect match.

I've never heard of a student not applying for all their choices on submission of application. The other universities don't know what other ones you have applied for anyway.

In any event, there are far more excellent candidates than places at Oxbridge. Why would other universities choose not to take students highly likely to achieve due to some form of prejudice, that doesn't actually make a lot of sense for them from an economic point of view, especially since the 2014 numbers cap was lifted. Universities are competing these days for the best candidates as much as the best candidates want to go to the 'best' (I use the term loosely).

Interestingly, DS has been emailed by a couple of the institutions that he declined offers for, asking him to give reasons why he turned the places down.

Anyway, I might be wrong. Just doesn't seem logical to me.

Thanks kitten, that's interesting.

Yes, DS and his mates are a pretty clever bunch. They are all going to universities that you would associate with success. Not all applied to Oxbridge.

"Why would other universities choose not to take students highly likely to achieve due to some form of prejudice, that doesn't actually make a lot of sense for them from an economic point of view,"

True, good point, though I think that some universities do 'cap' their admissions to particular courses - eg Durham, LSE, Imperial don't (as far as I know) offer a place to everyone with the predicted grades (whereas some others do these days).

So once a university is applying a cap it may prefer to offer to those they think will accept as firm, as it makes it easier to manage the numbers - particularly as, as you say, there are likely to be many excellent candidates. And a fairly safe bet is that most who are offered Oxbridge will make that the firm acceptance - though not all, I realise!

St Andrews turned down DD who applied post A level. They said this was based on her PS. She had straight A at GCSE and 3 A and an A in facilitating subjects at A level. She also had good extra curricular, a relevant gap year plan and excellent references.
She concluded that it was because they believed she would receive and accept an Oxbridge offer.

That's very interesting, wurzel! Yes St Andrews presumably also caps its numbers. If a numbers-limited course gets equally excellent candidates who (it surmises - can never be sure!) have not applied for Oxbridge, then from the point of view of managing the numbers you can see why they might offer to the non Oxbridge applicants instead..

Did your dd get offers from other universities? - don't name them if too outing!

Is there some clever way universities can work out after January who has not got an Oxbridge offer? Probably not - though I suppose those with an offer may accept it straight away along with an insurance, so fall out of the running.

Presumably the school reference is just as important as, if not more so than, the PS?

Or do references tend to be slightly bland and therefore not add much to the GCSE results/predicted grades?

@thatdidntlast

She did get unconditional offers from everywhere else including Cambridge.

The other potentially complicating factor with St Andrew’s was that because she had spent some time living in the EU as a child she came under the Scotland/EU umbrella and not the RUK for fees.

Ah, I see Wurzel, yes that is yet another complication! Dc at least won't have that to contend with.

Actually I am wondering whether you really can add your other four UCAS choices as and when you feel like it after submitting the initial form? I have read about this option on mn but looking at the ucas page seems to suggest you may only be able to do this after February, using Extra (unless you do the 7 day withdrawal thing).

www.ucas.com/undergraduate/after-you-apply/making-changes-your-ucas-undergraduate-application

And even if you can add choices in october/november, it sounds perhaps like one more Hassle!

In my DCs' experience the school references were definitely not bland.

There really is no point assuming that some unis eg Durham will reject if an application is put in before the early deadline. Durham shells out offers to the vast majority of Oxbridge applicants, as does UCL, Imperial, Bristol, St Andrews etc. It would be incredibly daft of them not to, and it's extremely rare to get a rejection from any of them, with top grades.

Again anecdotal , Ds put all his choices in at once as ( I think) did his friends who were applying to Oxbridge. The reason DS was turned down for one was much more to do with his suitability ( or indeed lack of) for the course rather than the date I think. An Oxbridge place can hang by a hair's breadth ( I am guessing - others will know ) all applying to very competitive courses are up there in the mix - but universities only have so many places ( does that sound trite ? I suspect so )

Best wishes to all

In case anyone is being put off applying to anything, I dont think it makes any difference when you put your application in. Universities are not allowed to discriminate, and all will want to recruit what they see as the best applicants.

What you do get though, is other over-subscribed courses being very slow to give offers. Durham, LSE etc will be giving out offers through till late March as they will want to get their numbers right, and so are waiting to see which eariler acceptees firm them.

It is also very possible to be accepted by, say, Cambridge, and not by other choices. Certainly in economics where several courses (UCL and Warwick are others) are very over subscribed, the advice was to apply to all four, and be happy with one - and it could be any. Observation is that Cambridge, which is the only one that interviews, tends to prefer the very confident would-be banker type. LSE seems to like their mathematicians whilst Warwick, which has lots of study abroad opportunities, likes linguists. And here I would disagree with thatdidntlastlong. If your aim is academic economics rather than the City, LSE offers the more rigourous course and arguably the stronger international reputation, so it is far from an obvious decision. The same will apply to other subjects, and so, assuming other things are equal, it is worth looking carefully at course content.

Thanks all - very interesting, and yes I would guess that Imperial may also be preferred over Oxbridge if both make offers. Less likely with Durham and Warwick I would have thought - but then again who knows - may as needs says depends on the course?

It sounds as though the important thing if applying to Durham/Edinburgh/Warwick/St Andrews etc is to prepare for a wait, and not panic when other students have 5 offers within 14 days of submitting the form! I think on another thread someone said that Birmingham could be slow as well. And have I read about Exeter in the past keeping people waiting?

We went to an open day at St Andrews for DS.. They specifically said they don't send offers out until March as they have so many for most subjects. They were brutally honest re grades too and basically said they hardly read the PS's as they didn't need to, they were so oversubscribed for his subject they drilled down into GCSE results, and further subject specific results such as the maths challenge etc.

Birmingham were indeed very late in making an offer to DS, but Edinburgh the first I think.

Warwick never replied to my nephew, he got 4 A stars and one A at A level. And didn't get into Cambridge. But probably didn't have the back up and experience from his school.

It's a lottery in some respects.

Exeter was first to offer my nephew, so it just depends!

Yes Just, I think you're right and best to accept a lottery element and remain calm! And it probably does depend on the course as well as the university.

Justanothermile, yes some applicants will tick all admissions boxes or perhaps their subject was less competitive. Others will end up waiting a very long time, often made tougher by having an Oxbridge rejection in the bag. Four years ago DS was still waiting on three of his choices in mid March having decided that he no longer wanted to go to his fifth choice. DD had the same, though with medicine it was less unexpected. Either way it was miserable.

Unlike Oxbridge, other Universities need to consider equally ALL applications received up and until the UCAS deadlline in mid January. With Brexit and the falling £, numbers are all over the place, so they cannot make too many early offers. And even in mid January some applicants, whose home education systems dont provide sufficient differentiation - Italy is an example - will need to sit further tests. The LSE "gathered field" thread on The Student Room runs for many pages.

DS ended up with one offer, which was fine. You only need one and he is now in the US with five years full funding to read for a PhD at a top University. He was also able to decline an Oxford offer at Masters level. A classmate got none but was offered a place at Cambridge on re-application. Another classmate trying for E&M at Oxford received feedback that the college had had twelve very very strong applicants, but only three places. He, again, has thrived in London.

The margins between receiving an Oxbridge offer and not, can be very fine. And the regrets of those who don't, will often fade quite quickly. Looking at next steps, there is little evidence that Oxbridge per se made a huge difference to the outcomes for a group with similar abilities and backgrounds. The biggest differences seem to come from subject choice and the willingness to work hard, get a good degree classification and take applications for internships and jobs seriously.

Has anyone else's DC been given their internal school deadline for their Personal Statement for Oxbridge applications? My DS's school have been quite generous, giving them until 5th October for everything to be finished. I guess that still allows 2 weekends to pull everything together.

We've suggested to DS to ask his school if they're ok with him only putting a few of his 5 UCAS choices down and adding the rest after Oxbridge decision day (9th Jan). He'd still have time before the standard UCAS 15th Jan deadline.

Perhaps I'm trying to be over-strategic 🙄 but DS could see the logic and usually has no qualms dismissing a suggestion if it doesn't appeal to his rational side (he's applying for Maths 😂)