What advice to give to DD re choosing where to go for Uni.

[DrMadelineMaxwell]

She knows she wants to do either a History degree (if it's a broad enough one) or an ancient History degree, or a combo of them both.

We live in N Wales.

She has her heart set on Cambridge, and her AS results in Aug will determine whether that goes on her application or whether she hasn't got the grades - stressful!

When I ask her where else she'd like to consider applying for, she says she doesn't know. And I don't envy her the decision.

When I went to uni, it was go to the closest one to home that I could commute to daily or don't go as we couldn't afford it and I wasn't encouraged to go away from home for Uni. We don't want to limit her, but don't really know how to help her decide.

How did your DD/you choose which Uni's to apply to?

Op. Cambridge is early closing. Mid October. Most schools expect students to apply to all five universities at the same time and have the PS etc completed for that deadline. You need to check if your school can do a staggered application. I’m not sure if that’s possible but it’s difficult to still be looking in October, particularly if it’s half term.

You haven’t said what her language ability is. I know someone who had to change from Ancient History at Exeter because she couldn’t cope with the Latin and Greek. If she’s not going to like these languages, she needs to be careful about the courses.

If you look in many major uk cities, there is crime. There is homelessness. I think some very rural students do find cities a challenge and the campus universities are therefore popular.

Larger History Departments offer the best choice. However, she should choose university quality over niche option for History. If she needs a job afterwards, then where you study is important. If she intends to come home and find something locally, then it probably won’t matter one bit.

If you think she may not get AAA at AS, then you do need to get some universities sorted for further choices. If she can’t manage Cambridge, you have far more time.

I do know there are ordinary students at Newcastle but it is targeted by good time ones. Very deliberately. However it’s a great place! I would look very closely at Exeter and Nottingham and Bristol. They are competitive to get into but have plenty of options.

As others have said subjects at Uni aren't taught but students are guided to subjects and they explore those. This means that you need to check out the library facilities. Does it have extensive subject coverage for your subject? Is it available all the time - some are 27/7 including Christmas as obviously not all students celebrate Christmas and some are closed after 6pm and only open a little bit during the weekend. Also check out the fines system. My elder son at Essex Uni can take books out for up to 6 months whereas I can only have them 3 weeks. He doesn't get fined, I do, really expensively too.

Please also consider the wellbeing and mental health support. Canterbury - where my youngest is studying politcs - has an amazing wellbeing facility, with the abilty to extend hand-in times made easier (it was surprisingly complicated for me when I needed an extension when my daughter suffered a miscarriage and I had to bring in proof of her medical event, which I thought was unfair and breached her confidentiality). Canterbury you can self-refer I think twice without evidence.

Check out the other things that Uni's offer. The course is only a portion of the things you need to consider. Ask the questions 'what would happen if my DD needed additional support due to an event at home?' or 'what is available to support her if she is struggling with the transition?' or something similar.

Remember Uni's are SELLING their courses now. Treat it the same way you would when buying a car or house.

Also we were asked to give feedback on whether we enjoyed our course and I have felt that it didn't offer enough technical support with what the lecturers wanted to read in assignments but my issues would never be included in the 'we think ......... (insert uni name) is fabulous' rhetoric. So take that with a pinch of salt.

I wasn't suggesting either of those uni's btw. Merely pointing out the differences you won't get told in the open days or literature etc. *24/7 Grr.

Most schools expect students to apply to all five universities at the same time and have the PS etc completed for that deadline. You need to check if your school can do a staggered application.

As I understand it, as long as the PS and reference and all the factual bits are done, you can submit with less than 5 choices, and then just make changes/add choices whenever you like within UCAS deadlines. School can't make you apply with 5 initially, and once they've done their bit the rest is up to you. The school wouldn't have anything to do with a "staggered application".

And Bubbles I really don't know why you're so obsessed with Newcastle! Maybe your info is a little out of date as your dc are a bit older? They knocked down Ricky Road halls (the ones with the serious party reputation) a few years ago! My Oxbridge student child has a far wilder life and more party-loving friends than the one at NCL

While I get that the uni you choose may be an important factor in general career chances, she is more likely to do well if she is enjoying herself and studying something that interests her. If her love is Ancient History, then 3 years studying WW2 and the Great Depression may not get the best out of her.

Some unis offer Joint Honours in Ancient History and History, so you can get a bit of everything. Or Ancient History and Archaeology. And Latin and Greek is not obligatory on all Ancient History programmes (though obviously a great way to go deeper into the subject).

Bangor piqued her interest today. Another (non RG) place, that's got the Gold award in the teaching framework that was really pushing the wealth of choice of modules that the pupils could choose including joint hons possibilities and the major/minor choices of subjects. Beautiful place to live/visit too.

Lower requirements, though. BBB.

She is still considering Durham if she can't settle on a 5th place to put down, or if she doesn't like York when we visit. She's aware of the early application requirement with Cambridge, and the Asnac course she'd love to do has a pre interview exam too.

We live in your neck of the woods. Shy DS. Got him a job at the local pub restaurant. It has made him much more confident. He has been to uni. exhibitions so now knows more than us. Manchester is a good uni. with good train links, do not discount it a friends son is studying medicine there and loves it. Friends children have been robbed in Chester and Liverpool. Thieves love robbing halls of residence. We looked at Cardiff, but it really is a pain in the behind travel wise. Eldest DS went to Huddersfield, he had fancied Leeds but decided the course was better in Huddersfield.

Middle DS went to Bangor enjoyed it so much we hardly ever saw him. Whereas the other son would come home most weekends in the summer . I would encourage her to join some clubs at uni. it does help you to settle in faster.

Slightly different advice from others.

She sounds as if she will enjy University as long as it is the right course and the right place.

She should certainly have a crack at Cambridge, but it matters not one jot when she completes the other four lines on the UCAS form as long as it is before the January deadline, or whether she completes them at all.

The idea that "most schools" have policies sounds odd. I can only speak from experience of one school but they would not have advocated this at all.

I would take the pressure off, and simply have her apply to Cambridge by the early deadline. Writing the PS will have her thinking about what she wants to study and why. She would consider other courses but the key thing then is for her to work hard, and read/explore around her suubject.

If she does not find anywhere else she really wants to go to, don't push. Simply aim for a gap year doing interesting things - archealogical dig, working in a stately home, and so on. A chance to meet people who share her interests and get a better idea of the options available.

Then she either gets offered a place at Cambridge first time round, or she has the gap year, reapplies to Camrbdige (it is perfectly possible to get a place on reapplication especially if you are more mature, understand the process better, and have developed your interest in the subvject). She will also hear from schools friends about their experiences of different Universities and gain ideas from them. And when she gets to University she will have the advantage of another year's experience and maturity and be ready to resume study.

Attia - I mean the City of Newcastle!!! Not any individual halls. I am talking about it as a place to live and the students I know who have chosen it for it’s lively nature. I have relatives there. I do talk to them! I’m not down on it at all but if someone found Manchester a challenge, Newcastle might be one too. Oxford is gentile by comparison. I know that to be very true!

You always refer to Newcastle as a party university. It's not clear that perhaps you actually mean that the city has a brilliant nightlife, is packed with great places to eat, etc. I just don't want quieter prospective students to be put off by you banging on about everyone going up there for a good time

From what I've seen, Newcastle is an extremely friendly city, with not many rough sleepers. Oxford has a lot of rough sleepers, high levels of bike theft, etc. And tbh the huge numbers of tourists there make it a less friendly city in my (longer than I care to calculate) experience. Note I say city not uni.

ds3 is in Newcastle and not at all a party animal. I knew of the good time reputation and thought his ASD would make it difficult for him to make friends if everyone was loud and out partying all the time. In fact he loves the place and says its the friendliest place he has ever been to.

dd1 visited five that offered her course and were not enormous cities as she is a pretty small town kid. She actually had one very clear favourite before visiting, but was blown away by one of the others when we set foot in the town - both the students running the tours and the recruiting team were head and shoulders above the favourite. She has hobbies and employment that she was bearing in mind, both of which would have been easy at her original favourite, but she went with her gut and loves it.

Ds1’s turn now - his sole aim seems to be to find the option with the lowest entry standards.

We saw more history departments than I want to think about. In addition to some of those mentioned Leicester Lancaster and Leeds are worth considering . Some departments offer combined Ancient history and history degrees.

Quite surprised at your DD's Durham perceptions. DS1 just graduated in history and had a similar ancient / early history interest. He found this ruled out a lot of Unis (including several at the more elite end and also some on your potential open day list). He did like the course offering at Durham though. So much so that we went to two open days there.

He decided on Cambridge and perhaps ironically focused mainly in Yrs 2 and 3 on periods that as a more naive and opinionated sixth former he probably would have rolled his eyes at :).

My advice for your DD - Aim high but keep an open mind.

Thanks for everyone's advice.

She def wants to apply for places with more prestige and higher standards (and therefore higher entry requirements) than other unis.

I read a few posts on the thread about Durham open days and was relieved to see that other people have also felt a little underwhelmed by Durham. She's had a look at their ancient history course details and hasn't totally discounted them. If she gets those As then she'll be applying to there and Cambridge now she said.

Bangor was brilliant - and the MOST organised open day we've been to yet. Very impressive. But lower ranking, so lower down her list of 5 for her application.

Her A lev tutors for psychology and history can't be more complimentary and say that she drops very few marks in exams, so will get a 'high A' in her results if she performed as expected in the exams. They said they don't do A* at AS level, but seemed to be implying that she was showing she might be able to achieve them in her A levels next year.

Her english tutor marks her down in every aspect in her reports. And tells DD that she's a B student. And has sometimes worried her by saying she needs to work hard to get that B.

We're waiting for the externally marked AS exam results to see if she's just very conservative with her gradings, or whether DD needs to adjust her sights a little. I imagine A A B isn't going to cut it with a Cambridge or Durham application. Durham was very clear in their talk that they require A* A A and even if you have that and apply, there's no guarantee of an offer as they are so popular.

I am sure people can make up their own minds and I don’t think I’ve put anyone off the toon.

I meant genteel obviously when talking about Oxford - house prices are multi million in some roads. Yes, my stolen car turned up on Blackbird Leys a few years ago. But I wouldn’t suggest someone didn’t go to university there because of a few thieving nutters.

OP three of my DC are recent Modern History graduates. The one who had a particular interest in ancient stuff went to the Durham offer day and was massively underwhelmed - the tutor didn't even show up for the taster lecture. He went to Oxford in the end but accepts that the offer holders' day was a misrepresentation of what Durham has to offer because his friends who went there (and the friends of all my other DC who went there) have all completely loved it. I've no idea why Durham messes up so badly with their Open Days/ offer holders' days but it seems to be a fairly common theme: really poor experience at those days compared to the actual thing.

OP AAB would be a problem for a lot of the top flight unis. A*AA predictions would be preferable. I'm surprised your DD is taking AS in each of her subjects still. Her GCSEs will be far more influential and she has those to hand - were they good enough for Oxbridge?

Oh, I wanted to ask about the AS's as well! Is it a Welsh thing? Or just her school? Or what?

My dd2 was another one underwhelmed at a Durham open day - felt there was little in the way of trying to persuade people to go there. But again we know people there who love it - I'm intrigued as to where the disconnect is.

(Carrying on off-topic - Bubbles, look at this Jesmond house! Can you imagine what it would cost in Oxford? 😂 )

Welsh town/exam board, AS levels are still a thing here. Which I have read is good in terms of Cambridge, and that the colleges have tried to convince some sixth forms to still do them as they are a useful indicator for them.

I'm not surprised to hear that the B at A level could well scupper her chances. Again, fingers crossed her tutor is just really conservative. Time will tell.

GCSE's - 5 A*, distinction in further maths, 8 As, one B (in the subject they were made to sit a year earlier than the rest, much to her disgust). Good enough to get her recognised for the Seren network, designed to identify pupils who are oxbridge or RG material and to encourage them to apply for those Uni's even if they wouldn't have otherwise considered them due to distance etc.

Ah that makes complete sense I was being dim about the Welsh system. It could well turn out that the English teacher is out of kilter not your DD.

DrMadelineMaxwell thinking about the down marking for English. It isnt necessarily a bad thing. When aiming for high grades it is very useful to know where marks are being dropped as well as gained.

DD1 found this when she had a tutor for a MFL.