Choosing, attending, UCAS fairs & Uni Open Days. When-how-what-who ?

[lljkk]

DD just finished yr11, wants to go to Uni. Quite competent, resourceful & ambitious.

When do they start attending UCAS fairs, or Open Days: how do they figure out which ones where when? DD will attend a posh indie 6th form: will they provide a lot of guidance on this? Do I wait for instructions from DD about what she needs or am I supposed to do something more proactive?

What did you do?

We waited for the school who gave suggestions about when to do what stuff, but the guidance by schools is very variable. At year 11 the Russel group guide to a level choices was very useful for us.

We went to some open days in the autumn term and more in the Feb half term of year 12

Before going to open days , the tricky bit was working out what course she wanted to do and therefore which might be the best universities. Even if she knows her subject, the courses can be very different. For example with science thervwill be different mixture of theory and practical, and different topics of specialisation. Each university has guides to their courses.

But before getting carried away it's a good idea to have a feel for likely a level grades, as it's probably not good aiming for Cambridge if you are a 3 B person. WHich website let you search for courses based on likely grades

Although the course dd now does is not the one she planned when she started visiting open days, it's a course she saw whilst wandering around at an open day, although closely linked. Especially on the first visits it can be a good idea to attend departments that might be interesting just in case.

Going can be expensive and time consuming so a bit of focus is needed. mostly parents go with the children.

My kids have always gone to UCAS fairs and that type of thing through school/college.

Dd2 went to one open day in the autumn of y12 because dd1 (autumn of y13) was going and she was interested. Apart from that, June/July of y12 and autumn of y13 has been open day season for them. I did ask ds if he wanted to do one in the autumn of y12, just to start getting his head round the idea, but he wasn't interested.

I'm sure her school will have talks and deadlines - e.g. ds has recently had to produce his first draft of his personal statement. He wasn't very impressed at doing it this early, but I think it's a quite good idea to have it percolating away in the background of your brain!

Dd2 ordered lots of prospectuses in the y11/y12 summer holiday - you can still get them to send you the paper copies, but they all seem to encourage you to download them these days, which just isn't quite the same for browsing through the pages.

https://www.opendays.com
Is your bible

(Ds is just finishing y12, thought I'd clarify that!)

Every uni will do several open days over the year. Your Dd has to think about what she wants to study first and foremost, then where is good for that subject and, just as importantly, where you she will enjoy being.

For examoke, I know friend's Dd who got into Cambridge but hated it. In my day, I thought I was going to one place until my interview, then completely changed my mind and went to other end of the country!

All unis now have blogs and Instagram etc to give you a sense of what the place is like before you go.

Get a shortlist and the plan the trips around that.

How much planning did you as parents do, and how much did your DC do without your input?

You need to know:

• What subject she wants to study.
• What range of grades she's likely to get at A-level (if you're not sure, the GCSE grades will give you an idea). Obviously you can't predict exact grades, but whether she's likely to be getting AAA or BBB.

There are online search tools (e.g. Which University website) where she can enter the subject she is interested in and her likely grades, to get a list of suitable places.

She can then narrow the list down:

• Course structure: check the university website to find out the details of each course.
• Location: e.g. my older two boys both wanted to study within 150 miles of home but not in London (too close).

She will now have a shortlist. Peak open day season is June-July and September-October. Some universities only hold a couple of open days and some will clash. Many have to be booked in advance but others you can just turn up on the day.

yeah... sorry. I think I was unclear. I probably knew about all of these information sources.
DD knows what she'll study.

My puzzle is: How much do I look at these resources or make a point of telling DD she should look, and how much do I keep my mouth shut & say nothing, leave it to her to look & find out on her own timetable, or wait for her to ask me what I know? What balance did others find?

I'm not a pushy parent... honest. :) But this is new experience for me as a parent & trying not to be a slacker. MNers often sound VERY involved, but they say it's precisely b/c they don't have a hyper-self motivated DC -- whereas my DD, is hyper-self-motivated.

One reason we granted her request to attend posh school was hoping they would pick up some of the burden of providing info & guidance. We will work long hours to pay for their expertise. Sounds like I can expect school to do a lot to guide kids thru the process(?)

It really depends on the child (young adult).

DS1 needed a lot of support in making a shortlist.

DS2 is only Y11 and is already much more proactive.

Perhaps you could prompt her to start each stage of narrowing down and then see how she gets on.

I second the above.

Think of it like planning a long journey:

Further education -> Higher Education -> Career

Like the sound of a career then research the normal route to get there. Take the steps backward to see degree preferred for that career then back again to see the A levels to get onto that degree. Like the sound of all of that?

Are there other careers which interest? Do the same again.

Keep researching, honing and refining. As with any journey it is easier if you start off going in the right direction but generally a wrong turning can be corrected especially if it is spotted early on.

I expect the school will provide information but I would be wary of taking their advice (if given) as gospel as they will not necessarily have the most up to date information on routes into careers or the most insight into your DD's personality and aptitudes.

Both my Higher Ed aiming DCs had a fair idea of direction by about Y9/10 so A level choices were quite straightforward (maths/sciences). They both went to some early open days to get a flavour which helped them to refine further.

Being realistic about prospective A level grades will help to focus attention on possible institutions. To be brutal, you cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear but equally you dont want to accidentally make a sow's ear out of a silk purse.

Research, visit, think. Rinse & repeat as many times as money and time allows. In the end she needs to boil down the possible institutions & courses to 5 to apply to then 2 (firm & insurance) that she would actually like to go to

All of the above needs to be led by your DD. It is her journey.

I think I have just started conversations every now and again, and if the child responded then I would carry on, if not, I'd leave it for another day.

Dd1 had lots of input at school, so all I had to do was check she'd booked the open days she wanted to go to, especially if she wanted transport or company. I also got her a (cheap!) subscription to a journal about her subject so she had something relevant to write in her PS

Dd2 was (is) very organised and motivated - but I probably talked to her the most about the whole process as she liked to discuss everything in great detail. I involuntarily became quite the expert on the structure of her chosen course at several universities! Her school were less proactive, and I was more supportive/'pushy' with her, suggesting things I'd mostly read about here, such as masterclasses, UNIQ, Sutton trust summer schools etc.

With ds, he's obviously seen the process twice now and has absorbed it a bit, and the girls have talked to him about it all, so it's not come out of the blue. But I've tried to tread quite lightly with him over y12 as he's been up and down in mood over the last couple of years, and I am quite nervous of feeling like I'm putting pressure on. But he's less good at getting things started than his sisters, says his friends don't talk about this sort of thing etc, so I have now got him to sit down and look at open days with me, and been quite pushy, "right, we're booking this one".

So I guess it's all about responding to whatever your dd seems to need from you

I took both DDs to 2 reasonably local university open days at the end of year 11 so they could get an idea of what a university is like and have a comparable. I then let them do some of their own research on courses, universities etc. They then decided what other open days to go on during year 12 - some I took them to, a couple they went with friends. I think school took them to one. School also took them to the UCAS convention - but that just seemed to be about what freebies they could get!
School spent a day showing them how to write a personal statement and issued them with a guide about applying. I read through their personal statements and helped cut it down a bit. School checked them too. One of them had to sit an Aptitude Test for one university which was done at school - but DD had to sort out entering it etc. This was a state school.

Thread has been helpful clearing my own mind about my expected role: when I'll do what.

I know the unready horse won't drink if I lead it to water... it's going to be best with DD if I put this all completely out of my mind & wait for her initiative.

My DD knew what she was going to study at 16, Physics. Within six months of starting A levels she had changed her mind and wanted to do Maths.
I think the summer of year 12 is early enough for open days. UCAS fairs were a huge disappointment to both my DC, they went to these with the school and felt they got very little out of them.

Taster days and summer camps are a great way to get a feel for uni life.
Look at individual uni websites for taster days, usually during Y12. Headstart courses (STEM) also run at unis all over the UK for a week over the summer of Y12.

lljk you can further reassure yourself and look at sixth form website which normally gives an indication of the university process that the school has for its pupils. We also took the policy of letting the school and DCs lead. They had periodic conversations about the future and university options with their friends. Not all of it generated accurate infornation though so our role was to remind them keep an open mind, as well as be interested in their latest thoughts about the future and sometimes help make a list of pros and cons for more difficult decisions. They can change quite a bit over two years including for preferences and sometime it takes the extra time of a gap year for an active decision rather than being pushed.

If your DD is wanting to do something out of the norm for the school you might need to do a bit more handholding.
I am sure that university open days are useful for some but mine basically matched their five choices to entrance grades etc, did n't bother with open days and used interviews or post offer days and certain teachers' advice to help final choices.

I would second the view that friends and indeed schools don’t always get it right. I have several neighbours who were disappointed when their DC didn’t aim very high when they could have done. A DC might be ambitious about getting to
University but they are too inexperienced to know the best university or top 10 universities. I find some teachers think all universities are good enough so be very wary of that. They are not all grads from the best universities and think their experience is just fine but if your DD wants a very competitive career, it might not be.

My DDs chatted a lot to friends at school and certainly aimed as high as they could bearing in mind their likely results. Their friends were ambitious and the parent body wanted the best too. You may find this is the case where your DD goes to school.

I think your role is to start the conversation, check out what might be suitable and Work ideas through together. That’s what we did. My DDs were not certain about subjects so we started early to eliminate some!

My DDs went to very expensive boarding schools and the schools were not overly proactive in suggesting universities or even courses. You might not find they are all singing and all dancing with regard to university so you shouldn’t leave it to them.

Look on university web sites re timings and bookings for open days. Late next term they might have info but keep looking because they may have subject days too, if you need one.

It's worth making sure she knows how wide a range of subjects there is to choose from. It's difficult for year-11 students to appreciate this, as they might only think about subjects offered at A-level and not consider how broad these are. The best examples are probably biology and geography: each of these contains a large number of separate disciplines (e.g. physiology, genetics, cell & molecular biology, biochemistry, zoology, botany, marine biology, human biology, conservation biology/ecology, neuroscience, etc. within biology) and many students will be better off choosing the one of these that most interests them - or aligns most closely with what they want to do next - rather than choosing a "biology" degree.

I think with broad subjects, it does pay to consider the alternatives. However even obvious subjects have variations within them. For example some MFL degrees are more translation based than others. With English degrees, the breadth of literature which can be studied is huge. It’s always worth considering the prestige of the university if you are wanting a subject where employment rates are lower and earnings are not likely to be as high. It won’t matter much where you train to be a Dr but if you study English it can matter a great deal.

Just because it's a posh school doesn't mean it's academic so I would look carefully at the peer group / cohort. If they are not that bright and all going off to fiddle around studying art and cooking direct her away from that if she is clever. If it's a 25% to Oxbridge academically selective school generally most children will be off to the top universities anyway but even then I would sound the child out on what they want _ our last 2 are at university now from fee paying schools and they formed their own views ontheir 5 choices and subjects with a bit of chatting with parents (we didn't attend anything actually but tyhat's just my children not bothering or knowing the places anyway). find the possible careers and work back to the university subject/status of the institution and then the A level subjects needed.

DD doesn't want to go to Oxbridge... but Actually, other parents tell me the posh school is overly obsessed with Oxbridge & the course DD wants & therefore neglects their other 6th formers. So probably ticks that box, anyway.

Already DD is bringing home lots of "Rich people!?!" stories every time she goes up to posh school.

We must have been crap parents, RI comprehensive, year 9 visit to local university, for all pupils. Ds1 only choose A levels on Gcse results day. I had career path sorted, then have too change plans twice in year 12. Went to local UCAS fair in early year 13, with school on his own. He knew courses which he wanted to study and found all universities offering the 2 types. Registered with most on day, then choose his own shortlist of 8, then 5 he wanted. We only drove with him, he drove my car on "L" plates. He chose his final 3, then went to 2 offers days on his own, bus and drove second time after passing. we went to final one, his firm choice.
We just monitored application process, to take pressure of him, as school was rated inadequate by now.
It's his choice, his course and his future and £40000 of debt, we just quietly proved help. God in less then 8 weeks he will be there and living/studying on his own, why Private school kids/Oxbridge types need so much input, is beyond me, they meant to be the cream of the cream, most state comp kids get hardly any assistance.

I dont think it is good or bad parenting or lots/excessive handholding from school.

If the student has a clear idea of the education/career journey they want to take and that journey is sensible and achievable then quiet support is all that is needed. A sounding board for plans, a bit of tweaking here and there.

The difficulty and extra support is needed from whatever source when the plans dont exist, are unrealistic, are overly cautious. In that case extra support is necessary.

IME school support was very generic and lacked insight into the specific aptitude and strengths and weaknesses of the individual student. Certainly students werent encouraged by their schools to look into the details of similar sounding courses at different institutions. The school support tended to be a little out of date and quite conservative. Success for the school was the student getting into their first choice university even if that meant accepting an unconditional offer at a lower institution rather than pushing the student a bit to aim higher.

When I look at the 'where are they now' lists I see very few Russell Group universities (a couple out of a cohort of 70). What I see is a lot of 'settling' rather than ambition.

Some students need more support than others, regardless of their school. Both my DS were pretty independent when it can to looking courses and universities. We helped get them to the open days they wanted to go to, and we bought the Times guide to universities. Their school wasn’t particularly helpful, so we helped them identify the universities that their A-level predictions would get them into, via the Heap guide.

By comparison, DD needs more support as her dream course had 1700 applications for 25 places, actually as a Caucasian female, statistically it’s massively lower than even that statistic suggests to get an offer. So she’s also looking at backup choices, and that means helping her be clear on what she would enjoy studying let alone where. Taster talks at the open days we’ve visited have been really helping her clarify that.

user, my private school children had less input though than your comprehensive one! i didn't even go to any open days (and nor did most of my children for that matter) so I am not sure we can generalise between the sectors. Some teenagers will want visits and others won't. Some will be too busy to go to things and some won't be able to afford to and some are just too lazy to bother.