Can anyone kindly look at DDS current uni choices. Honest feedback most welcome

[drivinmecrazy]

DD is in the process of deciding which unis she will apply for after the summer.
Her plan is to study English and Spanish.
Current favourites are Royal Holloway, Nottingham, Queen Marys and Surrey.
TBH her heart is completely set on Royal Holloway at the moment.
We're due to start our visits next week.
Courses are quite similar so think it might come down to personal choice (obviously with the proviso that she achieves her predicted grades).
Anyone with any strong feelings either way on her choices? Any feedback very much appreciated.
It's our first time round with uni applications so stabbing in the dark at the moment!!

Wow! Have read with interest all replies.
Interestingly some of the points made about RH being slightly dull and quiet are all plus points for DD. She loves the idea she can escape into London when she feels the need but equally loves the sanctity and security of her friends. Actually sounds pretty much like her life now.
She's hoping to go for a civil service apprenticeship (foreign office ideally) post grad. She seems to have her head screwed on at the moment but who knows what will happen post freshers week!
All the courses she's looking at have a year abroad so that's something we have to look into further. She's only just realised a year abroad won't mean spending her time at the dive centre or hanging out with her spanish friends!!
All great comments so far.
Im really interested in the commentsame made about student finance re RH . I was under the impression it did come under London weighting though that's purely based on student finance website.

I was under the impression it did come under London weighting though that's purely based on student finance website.

No definitely not! Because it's not in London.

I would be wary of a University described as 'lively' unless you are sure that is what your DD wants. It is interesting that Buckingham and St Andrews top the latest CUG student satisfaction table. A lot of Universities have expanded significantly in recent years, and in some cases pastoral care is lagging behind.

I cannot see any significant difference in employability between RH and, say Manchester or Leeds. Your daughter should go where they will be happiest and best able to engage in University life.

And anyway my understanding is that the public sector is moving quite strongly towards institution blind recruitment. All the more reason to select the University and degree that will suit your DD best.

Ds is adamant he gets extra on his basic living loan.

Has she looked at what universities people who do the foreign office apprenticeship tend to be recruited from? It's just that some of those universities are slightly second tier but may reflect the results she expects. I would probably put Nottingham about RH but I might be wrong.

RH does appear to qualify for the London weighting in the loan
www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=2563021

When looking at the year abroad, it is worth checking out what is available at each university. DD did MFL and the university did not sanction some low level jobs abroad as being sufficiently challenging for acquisition of language and culture. They also do not help students find jobs abroad so it’s down to self motivation, family and friends. The more academic route is to study at a partner university. Choose the very best university on offer. Students can study a variety of subjects and this has the huge advantage of being able to widen your studies beyond what you study in the uk. You can hopefully tailor it towards something that interests you or even another language. You complete work for your home university which they mark. It’s an amazing opportunity and many students really enjoy their year away. Of course, when you come back all your 3 year course friends have left! So keeping in touch with friends on 4 year courses is vital.

I think your DD should consider who is actually going to be around at RH at weekends. It has a reputation for emptying out. She may be one who goes home too but it has a different feel if you want to be around friends, but find they disappear every weekend. This may not matter to her though.

As the FO has a variety of selection methods, it probably does not matter where you go to university, but it pre selects prior to assessment for its Fast track programme and clearly isn’t just looking at degree and university. Not sure what their apprentice scheme is because I didn’t notice it on their web site but is it for graduates? Graduates tend to apply via graduate recruitment through the various routes.

It's not my exact area of expertise but Oxbridge graduates have a strong and persistent advantage when applying to the Fast Stream, and the same applies to other groupings of 'elite' universities e.g. Russell Group, Sutton Trust 13 or 30.

www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/civil-service-fast-stream-seven-charts

I'm not for a moment saying that she won't get where she wants to go from somewhere like RH, just that she should definitely think about places like York, Exeter, Warwick etc as PP suggest, as they will (unfortunately) be more likely to give her a leg up with her longer-term ambitions.

The Assessment Board method of selection IS my area of expertise, I am a trained assessor who worked on the graduate recruitment round for many years. Both the initial online sift which has tests of reasoning and situational judgement and the actual assessment board are looking for evidence that a candidate has the job related intellectual and personal qualities Which the Civil Service has defined as requirements for the job. It is institution blind except in the sense that the way in which a candidate approached all the experiences of university life, getting there, exams, any particular challenges they faced may provide the personal assessor with evidence of qualities that are important to the job, resilience and maturity are often two of the personal qualities you are looking for evidence of for instance. Obviously getting to a selective university demonstrates certain personal qualities, but then showing resilience by coping with NOT getting there and doing well elsewhere could too.

Oxbridge and the more selective universities’ graduates can tend to provide more evidence of intellectual skills, because they have already gone through a selection process which focused on them though the operational assessor (who looks for evidence that the candidate has the job related intellectual skills through presenting them with familiar and unfamiliar problems in much the same way as a Oxbridge interviewer ) might be looking for different intellectual skills, and with a different emphasis eg in terms of practical judgement.

However if a candidate can provide strong evidence that are strong candidates in terms of having these skills and personal qualities then it does not matter where they went to university, they will be recruited.

I do know someone who studied MFL including Spanish at RH and spent an amazing year out in Buenos Aires. It may have been privately arranged, their family had a lot of cultural capital, but worth asking about

By the way a lot of other graduate recruiters use the same assessment board method for graduate recruitment. The big accountancy firms for instance make a deliberate strategy of being institution and even name blind. Both the Civil Service and big companies follow these strategies because it helps them with their aim to achieve greater diversity in their intakes.

Just totted it up and I actually know 8 civil servants and they are all QM and Nottingham grads. At least two (one QM and one Nottingham) were fast stream. My experience is skewed as I know more QM grads having also studied there but l can’t explain the Nottingham thing; everyone I know that went there seems to have ended up working for government in some capacity!

I studied at QM. The quality of teaching is good and lots of opportunities for work experience etc. But the culture is very different to most Russel groups. The university is very popular with Conservative Muslim students. They are all very nice but they are very vocal which has caused a bit of tension in the past and has a minor impact on non-Muslim students who want to get involved with student politics. The non-Muslim students are again quite segregated. The international students tend to be from wealthy backgrounds and keep a bit to themselves, more than you would expect. The majority of the rest are state educated and very left wing which can be awkward of your DD is privately educated because a lot of them aren't very accepting of that.

Racecardriver I wouldn’t agree at all about the state educated/left wing aspect. I was privately educated as were probably half of my friends there, including some from public boarding schools. I didn’t come across anyone who had a problem with that. To be honest, the majority of student body I mixed with really wanted to study in London but hadn’t got their first choice(s) of UCL, Kings, LSE etc. but that’s likely changed as QM has shot up the rankings recently.

I agree on the Islamic society and their influence though. There were big dramas in my day when ISOC insisted on having a table at the sports ball, they were the only non sports team there, and then pressured the SU to ban alcohol from the event. Tension would be putting it mildly when the rugby club found out it would be a dry affair.

I studied at another London university with a lot of Muslim students, some Conservative, but actually quite a few liberal Muslim academics exciled from their home countries. I found it really enlightening and it opened my mind to the different perspectives. Yes you get some odd political campaigns, a motion to ban alcohol on campus , trying to assert different spaces for brothers and sisters and sometimes the politics get OTT but generally I found the debates more enlightening than difficult.

@TroubledLichen maybe it was just my cohort? I didn't mix that much outside of the tutorials/lectures because I didn't have time. The ISOC people had a real reputation for being horrible. Mostly to other Muslims though. When I was there they had a really Liberal attitude towards weed odly enough (they were mental about alcohol back then too). I wonder whether that had changed. Oh and the barts/mary divide. Was that a thing when you were there?

@whatwpuldrondo it must be interesting for people who aren't from that kind of background. I just got to university and thought 'bollocks, I moved countries to nor have to put up with this and its here too!'. I didn't realise how popular it was with Muslim students.

@Troubledlichen I just remembered- 'Can I have your Wali's number?'! I found that hilarious. Even coming from a Muslim background I had never heard of that. ISOC was totally bonkers!

Oh yes big Barts divide! Although I was a member of a sports team and we had a few Barts dentists much to the disgust of some of other teams who felt that Barts were only to be thrashed at the Merger cup.

Haha ‘Can I have your Walis number’, I had to have a Muslim friend explain that one to me. Ah the memories!!

I agree with Ron on institution blind recruitment. DS is the only British student out of 40 on a Masters course that would uniquely qualify him for a specific role within the public sector, and expects to get a Distinction. But failed to get beyond the computer pre-sift in a five stage recruitment process. He said it was odd. He kept being asked about whether he strongly agreed or disagreed with things. Being the potential public servant that he is, he probably would have wanted a box which said, give me the evidence first. Instead I think he opted for ‘neither agree or disagree’ all the way through.

He did however perform strongly in recruitment for a similar role in another country with which he has no links, but who do consider qualifications and institution.

I find the MN orthodoxy that believes that going to Oxbridge gives you an advantage when it comes to job search with large employers, outdated. Your advantage comes from the fact you succeeded once in a competitive selective process so are more likely to succeed again. Generally students will be best off somewhere they enjoy, where they are stretched academically but have also engaged in University life and developed wider social, organisational and other skills.

DS in the meantime will take a PhD so has five years to work out how to get the computer to say yes..

Can’t give you any advice on the others but I study at Surrey, however in the Health and Medical Sciences school rather than with languages/English. I do know students who study those areas though and seem to have a good experience. Surrey seems very keen on pushing employment and placement opportunities which is obviously good for the future.

It’s also a lovely campus, feels very safe and secure. The university notoriously excels in pastoral care. The first year accommodation is also lovely and not too expensive however there have been issues with increasing student numbers well above demand and students can struggle to find private accommodation for second year onwards.

But overall I love the university and feel very settled here

She may like the idea of quiet and small but although not ‘in’ London she may find friends go home to their own families and friends at weekends as it’s so near. For
me in another town near London this was a significant disadvantage - so many people went off on Friday afternoon that weekends were totally dead. Also those people that returned home didn’t ‘need’ the sort of friends that serve as family in the same way

I think people are just trying to be helpful and it's not particularly outdated for some careers that certain universities are more helpful to have been to (the ones it is harder to get into academically) than others.

I think I read this week that Abramovich's daughter by the way has just graduated from Royal Holloway... looked it up... www.thetimes.co.uk/article/abramovich-daughter-sofia-toasts-end-of-degree-at-royal-holloway-8hnzfsz9p

My husband works at QM. He agrees strongly with TroubledLichen- QM offers central London experiences with the security of a student village on campus. It's English dept is extremely strong. The uni has the quality you'd expect of a Russell group university but with a distinctive ethos - very diverse student body and very engaged with the local area.

Good luck to your DD in her decision!

Screenshot from RH website.