Oxford or Cambridge

[Taisha1971]

I do not know if I am repeating a thread, my 17 year old says she wont apply to Oxford nor Cambridge as it would be boring and nerdy and she wants to have fun at uni- here is where I beat my head against the wall...
Her results warrant an option to be accepted if I could just nudge her to actually apply, how do I convince her she is being judgemental and is making a huge mistake not even applying

What does she want to study? Have you established that either Oxford or Cambridge is the best place for her intended field of study, or do you just want her to apply to one or the other because she is very clever and Oxbridge is where you should go if you are very clever?

On the other hand, how much research has your DD done to identify to the best place for her intended field of study and the universities on that list at which she feels she would be happiest spending three or four years of her life?

Describing anywhere as 'boring and nerdy' might indicate not necessarily much in depth analysis carried out, but you don't seem to have identified whether Oxford or Cambridge offers the better course for her subject?

Why is she making a mistake by not applying?

Well Oxford or Cambridge aren't boring and nerdy but they do have something of a particular culture. But there are lots of other good universities too so no shortage of other options. Many life decisions are made on flimsy reasoning!

Where does she want to apply to?

Has she been to see them?

My daughter was adamant that she didn't want to consider Oxford (for some reason wasn't so anti Cambridge). I said obviously it was up to her where she applied but more or less insisted that we went to an open day.

We went to a talk on her subject which absolutely converted her and dispelled some of the stereotypical myths she had. We also looked round some of the colleges. She applied, got in, and has just finished her final exams.

She is neither boring nor nerdy and has had a brilliant 3 years socially.

Your daughter might not like it. Fair enough. But she won't know unless she goes to look.

Fucking hell that attitude makes her sound completely wrong for oxbridge. I don't know, I was there a long time ago. It's true that if she can't hack hard work or being really passionately interested in her subject she might as well not apply. But nerdy and boring it was not.

It's certainly not boring and nerdy but you do need to genuinely love your subject of study and enjoy the academic rigour.

Having studied at oxbridge and then worked at a number of non-oxbridge universities I think the social side of student years is way better in oxbridge than many other places. Possibly due to a higher incidence of eccentric characters there range, variety and shear number of clubs and societies seems greater at oxbridge.

The only people who are stuck in the library/at a desk all day are those who know in their hearts that they are 2:1 material but really want a 1st. Those who are reconciled to getting a 2:1 (most people) and those who can get a 1st without caring much (a lucky few) have an amazing time.

D you think perhaps the boring and nerdy comments are a cover for a healthy dose of genuine fear that she may not get in if she were to apply?

Oxbridge is play hard work hard.

It is so so fun, but you have to be self motivated and disciplined to do the huge amount of work.

I’d beg you to visit it with her on an open day.

If she doesn't want to apply I wouldn't make her. As PP's have said, from what we've seen you need to be really fascinated by your subject and there is no hiding place.

Find out where else she could go that has a less intense atmosphere. Oxbridge isn't the be all and end all.

Boring and nerdy?! first of all there's nothing wrong with nerdy, tell her to stop with the silly prejudice. But, I have never had so much fun as when I was at Oxford, people there mostly go by the work hard, party hard principle. But yes, it is a particular culture, and it can be a little conservative in some ways. Up to her, but I think she is being very silly and missing out on a good opportunity for rather superficial reasons (which at her age is pretty normal though!)

That's exactly what my DD says too. I like the idea of taking her to an open day in any case though.

Plenty of non Oxbridge students go on to have really successful careers. Don't force her to apply, it is not the be all and end all for every subject. Terms are short but intense.

She is passionate about Psychology, Economics, asked me if she was nerdy bec she loved writing her essays on Economics, I think it is fear of not being smart enough, and underselling herself. She is also very good in Advanced Maths and Art- just submitted her course work to RA but we may drop Art, and yes we are going to Cambridge Open Day in July. Thank you all for your insights - it has been helpful

Going to the open day is key - I fell in love with Oxford when I went on an open day and from that moment on would have done anything for a place. Talking to other students (some of whom may have had similar fears to your DD) may help her make a decision.

If she is still not enthused after that, I'm not sure you should push it. However, a few very bright friends of mine later wished they had applied to Oxbridge - they didn't at the time because they were afraid they wouldn't get in! Such a shame to not apply just because one is afraid of failure.

I think there are two strands here.

1. you dont need to go to Oxbridge to do well. DS applied to Cambridge as it was one of four economics courses he was interested in. He was rejected, but was offered a place at LSE. He is now completing his Masters and I don't think has a moment's regret. For his specialism LSE would generally, by both academics and employers, be regarded as the best department outside the US, and LSE suited him socially. Other universities do "nerdy".

1. I would be more worried about her preference for "fun". She sounds like a 17 year old! Here there is a serious conversation to be had about the balance she wants. There is fun and fun, and she sounds like a girl who can engage in both academics and outside interests. DD felt the same and did not apply to Oxbridge, though she had the grades. I think to some extent she does regret this, and would have preferred somewhere where fellow students were more interested in academics and other stuff. She was unlucky though in her initial flatmates, and her second year, sharing with people who are engaged in University life, shoud be much easier. Plus the course probably suits her more than the ones offered by Oxbridge. I expect when she gets to the end she will be content with the decision she made.

She should base it on the course. With her interests she might look at Universities with a known strength in behavioural economics, which is a real growth area. LSE is one, but LSE is not for everyone. It is a huge advantage, in accessing academic or research careers (including well paid ones in banking) to have the maths. The degrees considered to have the strongest maths contents are Cambridge, UCL, LSE, and Warwick.

You dont nudge her to apply. She has to decide for herself where she will be happy for several years. You can point out potential advantages but you should also point out the disadvantages. Take her to have a look, encourage her to give it serious consideration and then back off.

It's her decision, not yours.

If she wants to read Economics at Cambridge she will need tk have done Maths and Further Maths at A level.

At Oxford for Economics and Management she will just need Maths. It is worth getting the prospectuses to check she has rhe correct facilitating A levels before a wasted trip.

FMaths is not required by all Cambridge Colleges. Or at least that is what it says on the University website.

However it is a very mathematical course, so you do need to like maths.

My Dsis went to Oxford and I have never known anyone play so hard! Work so hard too; it’s almost like it’s a life skill they teach, to encourage you to pack it all in and still give it 100% academically. She made friends for life and met her DP there. Not nerdy at all.
Any chance of your DD going on some kind of “taster” and meeting some real students?

Nerdy? Yes, probably. Boring? Absolutely not. They were the most fun three years of my life.

But even as a very enthusiastic Cambridge graduate, I think you are wrong to say it would be a mistake not to apply. Both Universities have their own special culture, which some people love and some people hate. She needs to find the place where she will both have fun and excel. For me, that was Cambridge. But I don't kid myself that it's the be all and end all.

It can be frustrating if we feel that our DC are not taking advantage of all options open to them but uni choice has to be up to them, she has to pick somewhere that she feels will suit her best. Oxbridge is not the be all and end all, and is not a cast iron guarantee of glittering career success in the future There are lots of fantastic universities in this country and depending on her subject choice Oxbridge may not necessarily even be the best option.

DD has just finished her degree at Cambridge with her final exam yesterday, she has found it mentally gruelling and bloody hard graft but never once was she bored. It does not have a massive array of nightlife in the city itself but each college has its own bar and there are a vast number of social activities arranged by the colleges and many societies.

DS 16 has loved visiting his sister at uni but he has decided that Cambridge would not suit him at all and he will not be applying.

I would strongly advise her to think about the the course she wants to study then read up on that specific course content of various universities as this can vary massively from uni to uni. Does she want a campus uni or would she prefer a city uni? What are the teaching standards, facilities and graduate prospects for each uni in relation to her course like? If it is important to her then what are the social activities like? Once she has a shortlist then attend open days to get a better feel for each place.

The workload at either place does seem to be massively heavier than at other universities. If you are into your subject (or just very academically gifted) then that’s okay, but if neither of those is the case then you have to tell yourself you won’t be complaining when you are having to produce a (long) essay every week to defend in person whereas your mates who have gone elsewhere have one essay a term that may or may not be marked, let alone discussed.