How strikes are affecting students

[Pigsnkids]

Young people are selecting their 2018 university choices now but may not be aware of the impact the current lecturers strike is having on the amount of tuition students are receiving, how access to facilities are restricted and how exams are being disrupted. My elder daughter, an undergraduate, received only one in three of her lectures last term, and my friend's daughter turned up to find her exams had been cancelled and would be reinstated at short notice. While the NUS is asking the students to support the lecturers, many young people are losing valuable tuition which they have paid for. Most of us have felt uneasy at the vast debts they are incurring, which it is estimated will take 30 years to pay off, and now we find they are not receiving what they have paid for and don't seem to have any consumer protection or recompense. The contracts they have signed deem the universities not liable for strike action yet negotiations have been going on for over a year. Whatever your thoughts on the pension issue - ask potential universities what they intend to do to resolve the situation and how they will ensure your child gets the education they are paying for. This is such a shame for our young people starting out on their careers. Alternatively, suggest a gap year.

[quartermooninatencenttown]

Think you misread my post - my point was that actually whether students attend or not is deeply relevant to how they respond to the current action. Many students complain about lectures being cancelled that they would not have attended anyway. As previous poster said, university is a privilege.

[quartermooninatencenttown]

Sorry response was for yellow primula - posted too early!

[BigGreenOlives]

My dd’s friend is doing medicine. They missed lectures on some parts of the digestive system.

DD has missed the start of a module & the end of another. Lectures not available on line as not all modules are taught every year. Accommodation is charged for the full year which exceeds the teaching year.

[YellowPrimula]

Quarter moon point taken and I entirely agree .

Primrosie , the strike does affect responding to prospective students as it applies to all university work . Also before dismissing this eminent dept your daughter should consider that a busy professor may well be away delivering conference papers or researching , he may be on a writing sabbatical , he may be teaching/ marking papers for those students who are already at the dept etc etc.

Most depths have an administrator who would be able to direct queries to the right person in the dept and help with specific advice etc and this may be a better first port of call then the ‘top man/ woman ‘ iyswim

[SummerGold]

Of course students will suffer- that's the entire point of a strike, surely?

The academics striking say that their aim is to harm the university, not the students. When in reality of course, the complete opposite has happened.

[Pigsnkids]

Thank you for responses.
@user150463, I'm genuinely interested to know how universities will be compensating students and wonder if you are able to explain this? More transparency is needed.
The response I have received from Manchester university doesn't seem to say anything other than give a reassurance that no student will be disadvantaged as a result of the industrial action, and yet as far as I can see my daughter already has been. It's not only lectures being cancelled but knock on effects, like the organisation of trips and the missing of practicals. And what's more, it doesn't look as if there is likely to be a resolution anytime soon and I have a second daughter starting university in September.
I am not against the lecturers receiving a better financial package, but I don't think we can ignore that this action is having an impact on our young people. In fact, I have read that the UCU has asked students and parents to voice their disquiet to the universities to put pressure on them to resolve this issue. so surely this will help the cause rather than hinder it?
@boys3 Of course independent study is part of going to university but surely this hinges on the lectures and tutorials received, otherwise what's the point of going?
Whether we like it or not our universities are running like a business and students are consumers and as such their rights should be protected.

[turnipfarmers]

that everything is on the VLE anyway.

Which it isn't, my daughter's lecturer doesn't have his lectures recorded so they aren't on the VLE.

[UpOver]

Not read all the posts


It's incorrect and annoying to hear so many academics say that it shouldn't be a problem for students to lose three weeks worth of lectures especially if they are in their last year. The last semester of university isn't that long as it is and losing three weeks is a huge deal for some students. Also, for some, it's not just the lectures, it's the uncertainty, the lack of feedback and the lack general lack of support and availability.
Some lecturers have gone out their way to minimize the effect on their students but others don't seem to care much at all.

If lectures are so unimportant to some why bother with them.

[UpOver]

that everything is on the VLE anyway

My DCs aren't.

[dayinlifeof]

My dd’s friend is doing medicine. They missed lectures on some parts of the digestive system.

Let's hope they never miss a case of stomach cancer then.

[UpOver]

BTW. My DC is covering brand new topics this semester and has always attended lectures. She has barely missed any over her whole degree. She adores her degree subject but it doesn't come easily to her - she finds lectures and tutorials etc invaluable.

Most of her lecturers have been great but a couple have been useless and lazy. For example they haven't even bothered letting the students know whether or not any topics are going to be dropped for the exams.

It's clear that the 'lecturing' part of some academics work is not important to them.

[SoupyNorman]

Most of her lecturers have been great but a couple have been useless and lazy. For example they haven't even bothered letting the students know whether or not any topics are going to be dropped for the exams.

That’s not for striking lecturers to resolve; that’s up to the university management to sort out. Nothing to do with being “useless or lazy”

[SoupyNorman]

And as for the poster upthread who is planning to include Unis where strikes have disrupted students' education (with a subset for those who have made little effort to mitigate the effects.) among the “poorer universities” - you do know that this includes 65 of the most highly rated universities in the country? Up to you of course, but you will be giving your DC v poor advice if that’s the type of conclusions you are drawing from this.

[argumentativefeminist]

Also, these strikes are largely unprecedented and probably (hopefully) won't happen again for a long time. The way I see it, yes, in some ways students now have been disadvantaged, but this has been in order to secure a better future for academics and ensure the continuation of universities as they are today. Sometimes you've got to give things up for other people's gain, surely?

Also, someone upthread mentioned it being a better financial situation that the lectures want to get out of the strike - its not, they want to keep what they have previously been entitled to.

Also someone upthread asked if I have small group tutorials - no, essentially I take modules from, e.g. History, Politics, Media Studies, and join their already running classes in the usual large groups. But - I still think I'm immensely priveleged, because I havent been shot in the head for being a woman who wants to get an education. A sense of perspective (in many aspects) would really help people calm down about this strike.

[Grassyass]

that everything is on the VLE anyway
Only in some subjects at some unis.
On my DC course (maths) they don't always provide lecture notes either so attendance is crucial.

[argumentativefeminist]

FFS if it isnt on the VLE why dont your kids email the lecturer outside of strike time and ask for the lecture slides/speaking notes/to go over what they missed in the next available office hour?

No, online PowerPoints are not the same as having a vigorous intellectual debate in a seminar. Yes, in some subjects and with a boring lecturer, its largely the same as going to the lecture. The relevant point being, you wouldnt have either of those things if everyone decided they wanted to leave academia to get a decent pension and a sense of respect for their intellectual and emotional labour.

[UpOver]

Soupy
I used the 'example' of the lecturers not letting the students know if topics are going to be dropped from the examinable syllabus as an example. The lecturers were the ones promising this information some weeks ago. Even if this isnt technically something the lecturers should be sorting out there plenty more examples of SOME of the lecturers being lazy . A couple of the lecturers clearly don't give a shit about the students.

BTW this is a relatively highly ranked Uni.

[hellsbells99]

DD1 has been informed that everything will still be in her exams. She emailed a lecturer last week to ask what topics would be in the exam for that particular module and was told everything. Lectures slides from previous years have been posted on the VLE with no notes and DD is struggling to understand some of it hence her email.
Yes she does work hard and spends most of her days in the library and has spent most of the Easter holiday studying. Like Grassyass' DC, this is a maths degree.

[SoupyNorman]

Example of what? It doesn’t show “laziness”, far from it - those lecturers on strike don’t decide on dealing with disruption arising from the strike, whether that be rescheduling classes, amending exam papers. That’s for management to sort out, and to communicate to students.

[argumentativefeminist]

There's shite lecturers everywhere, just like there's people who are bad at being shop assistants or doctors or electricians or bakers and don't do more than what's necessary to keep themselves in the job. Doesn't mean everyone else doing the same job should give up fighting to protect their pension though, does it? One cruel, unattentive nurse doesn't excuse dismissing the NHS pay crisis, so why is it a relevant point here?

[argumentativefeminist]

@hellsbells Its hard to understand complex things without someone explaining them to you, even if you work hard like I'm sure your DD does - so perhaps we need to be sticking up for the people that do that job?

[YellowPrimula]

That is most certainly true argumentative but it doesn’t help the student now and I think if the strike goes on into the exam period you will see more students and their parents questioning this.

The UCU has been very poor in its communication with the audience outside the sector and for whatever reason coverage in the.national press has been patchy.

It’s sumply not good enough to say that you should be grateful simply because in many countries you can’t access an education action at all . Our higher education sector is now the most expensive in the world and to many people the only way they can rationalise this is by looking at contact hours however erroneous we know this to be as a measure.

[user150463]

Unis where strikes have disrupted students' education (with a subset for
Unis with no small group teaching.

You just excluded the entire post 92 sector, including several universities in the world top 10.

[user150463]

Most of her lecturers have been great but a couple have been useless and lazy. For example they haven't even bothered letting the students know whether or not any topics are going to be dropped for the exams.

I am an external examiner at two universities affected by strike action.

It is not yet possible for students to be told what topics will be dropped as this has not yet been decided by the (management led) examination boards.

It is not allowed for lecturers to decide themselves what topics to drop from the exams - this has to pass through (management led) examination boards. As an external, I have to approve it too.

I would be astonished if students have not been told the timescale on which mitigation arrangements/changes to assessments will be communicated to them. In my own university and in the ones where I am external students have been bombarded with email messages about this.

[user150463]

Also, for some, it's not just the lectures, it's the uncertainty, the lack of feedback and the lack general lack of support and availability.

You do know that many lecturers are currently working "Action short of strike"? I.e. working only the 40 or so hours per week for which they are paid, instead of whatever ridiculous hours are needed to do all the admin, management, education and research that is required of them.

I don't regard working only the hours you are actually paid for as "lazy".

I regard the ever increasing workloads for no extra salary as simply unacceptable. (Even though I personally work 60+ hours per week, evenings, weekends and haven't taken annual leave apart from the compulsory Christmas break for more than ten years.)