How strikes are affecting students

[Pigsnkids]

Young people are selecting their 2018 university choices now but may not be aware of the impact the current lecturers strike is having on the amount of tuition students are receiving, how access to facilities are restricted and how exams are being disrupted. My elder daughter, an undergraduate, received only one in three of her lectures last term, and my friend's daughter turned up to find her exams had been cancelled and would be reinstated at short notice. While the NUS is asking the students to support the lecturers, many young people are losing valuable tuition which they have paid for. Most of us have felt uneasy at the vast debts they are incurring, which it is estimated will take 30 years to pay off, and now we find they are not receiving what they have paid for and don't seem to have any consumer protection or recompense. The contracts they have signed deem the universities not liable for strike action yet negotiations have been going on for over a year. Whatever your thoughts on the pension issue - ask potential universities what they intend to do to resolve the situation and how they will ensure your child gets the education they are paying for. This is such a shame for our young people starting out on their careers. Alternatively, suggest a gap year.

[argumentativefeminist]

Im sure lots won't agree with me, but as an undergrad I really think that going to university is a privilege. Its an amazing, life changing experience to be taught by insightful, interesting people in a subject that you're passionate about. And if you genuinely want to stand by whilst they get their pensions significantly cut, meaning many more will have to leave academia to find a more financially lucrative job, and all you can think about is that you didnt actually get anything (other than full use of your uni library, study facilities, support staff etc) for those few weeks, and all you can complain about is how it'll affect the student loans that you're unlikely to ever pay off before they get wiped, then I think you need to subject yourself to a rigorous critical evaluation

[SweetieBaby]

So just counted up

11 weeks from September to Christmas, 1 week reading week.

Then 15th Jan - 15th Feb with 2 weeks staggered reading week.

Then 4 weeks strike action, 3 weeks with no lectures and 1 week with some missed.

2 weeks tuition until broke up 2 weeks early for Easter.

Then that's it until October, apart from 2 exams.

[titchy]

@argumentativefeminist 👏👏

You are what makes me get up and go to work every day. Thank you.

[eggsandchips]

@argumentativefeminist what titchy said 👍🏻

[argumentativefeminist]

@titchy keep up the good fight

I get 6 contact hours a week and I treasure every one of them. My degree has 7 people on it, and absolutely couldnt be run without the dedication and advocacy that we get from academic staff. I feel immensely, immensely priveleged to have this opportunity. Its not just afforded to me because I worked hard, but also because we have a functioning higher education system in this country - the infrastructure, the funding and the pay scales are just as important as any other factor. I do wonder what Malala would say to some of these anti-strikers.

[argumentativefeminist]

And you keep fighting the good fight as well of course @eggsandchips! 💕📚

[SweetieBaby]

My argument though isn't really about the strike action, it's about the general lack of tuition time made worse by the strike action.

For example, I don't understand if the Easter holiday isn't time tabled to start until 6th April why it actually started 2 weeks earlier? The fact that for the month before tuition was disrupted just adds to it.

And whether all students attend all lectures is neither here nor there. If you've paid for them they should be on so that those who want to attend, can.

It's not the academic staff that I blame but the universities who seem to be extracting as much money as possible from the students. So, ok, £9500/year tuition fees but then on top of that £7000 for halls and then charge £5 per load for washing and £5 per load to dry washing is just a liberty.

You just can't justify that.

[SweetieBaby]

Do you mean 7 students doing your degree feminist? How can that be viable financially for the university? I guess you are getting a fantastic experience though with such a high ratio of staff to students.

[argumentativefeminist]

@sweetiebaby

What you've done here is what students affectionately call "only working out wtf I was talking about when I got to the conclusion". All the issues you're cross at are very worthy of their own, seperate threads, but dont have anything to do with the strike. I promise all students are pissed at £3 washes, but it doesnt affect our views on pensions.

And yes, 7 students. Its essentially three disciplines in one degree, so we take modules from different schools and different existing courses. So, think "BA History, Politics and Sociology" (that isn't actually it). I can't imagine its a massive financial strain, but its certainly a strain on the admin and support staff to keep it logistically flowing, and dependent on the advocacy of the course director (a lecturer) to continue arguing to the uni that its a valuable course

[Sofabitch]

A university academic year is really only 24 taught weeks plus exams.

4 weeks out of 24 is really not that huge a deal.

[SweetieBaby]

@argumentativefeminist

I get what you're saying. I was trying to explain that 4 weeks of industrial action, when tagged onto extended breaks could actually have a big impact on students.

I guess if you are established on the course and are settled into the work 4 weeks won't make a huge difference.

My daughter's course is divided into modules. Some have covered the year, others a term and then others she had to pick 2 over a term. So for these she has barely had any tuition just because they haven't had that contact time. Most of this term, from going back mid January, has been disrupted in some way - reading week which was split and so was spread over 2 weeks, snow days, strike days, 2 extra weeks holiday over Easter and now 4 weeks Easter holidays.

If this lack of contact time is of no consequence then why is it necessary? I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just don't understand how we can say that lecturers deserve to be paid X amount, that we value what they do and then say " well the students won't have been disadvantaged by this because they should be doing independent study and it isn't necessary to have contact time. Lots of students don't go to lectures anyway".

Just to note - I support strikes. It is the last resort and everyone should have the right to withdraw their labour. The changing of pension provision is terrible and is affecting more and more people and it should be fought against.

Where I don't agree is in saying that students won't have been affected by it. In a perverse way, you would hope that students would have been affected otherwise what is the point of the teaching staff?

[HeddaGarbled]

The lecture slides will be on the VLE. Only a small minority of dedicated students attend after the first one or two lectures, once they've cottoned on to this.

[SweetieBaby]

I don't know if that is correct or not, but I shall take your word for it.

Point being that if the lectures should be on, then they should be on for those students that want to attend.

It's been posted above that an academic year is 24 weeks plus exams. My daughter has had 14 weeks so 10 weeks is missing somewhere (unless 24 weeks includes holidays?)

[titchy]

Exams will be re-written, assessments marking schemes adjusted, possibly material delivered at a later date. That's what is meant by students won't suffer, not that the lectures weren't necessary in the first place.

[YellowPrimula]

Do you know that for a fact Titchy at all universities affected and for all courses at those institutions?

[SweetieBaby]

As far as I know that isn't happening with my daughter. They've been given 1 week's extension for 2 essays, that's all.

I don't know what is happening with regards to the exams.

[LivBonas]

Does anyone know whether the strikes will continue after Easter? My daughter had good levels of communications from the department, and then all communication has ceased recently, so I'm wondering whether they'll carry on

[SweetieBaby]

Sorry. Posted too soon.

I don't see how lessons will be delivered at a later date - they only had 2 weeks tuition after the end of the strike (when according to published term dates it should have been 4) and that's it for the year now so I can't see when they can make up lost time before the summer exams.

I guess the content could have been on line but then what is the difference between a physical university and the OU?

Sadly by charging so much universities have made students consumers. They have changed the nature of the relationship. I'm sure the same would happen if the NHS started to charge patients - they would feel entitled to what they had paid for and would have a certain level of expectation.

When my daughter went to applicant days a certain level of support was promised - x number of lectures and seminars, personal tutors, faculty monitoring of attendance (miss a certain number of lectures and you will be contacted for a welfare check) etc. You may or may not agree with this. However, the fact is that she decided to go there based on this level of support. They were the terms of the transaction - you give us this amount of money, and we supply you with this. I understand that a degree involves a lot of self tuition and study, that isn't the argument. The argument is that they haven't supplied what they said they would and the strike compounded that.

If an academic year is 6 months then loosing 1 month (over 15%) is not insignificant.

I don't see why this can't be acknowledged rather than down played?

[YellowPrimula]

The UCU is currently balloting on the latest ‘deal’. The ballot does not close until 13 April so the Universities don’t know the situation at the moment.

[LivBonas]

Thank you YellowPrimula! Do you know whether the strike situation is looking likely to continue, or is it completely unknown? I remember with the last deal it was highly likely to continue as I saw a lot of academics voicing their opinions on how ridiculous the deal was...is that the general feel this time?

[YellowPrimula]

There are some interesting comments on the web and the guardian higher ed section . Also try the UCU site itself , there is also a thread on here I. The academics corner topic which is a sub section of work . I think it’s pretty finely balanced actually .

[quartermooninatencenttown]

It is hugely relevant whether or not a student attends lectures. It is to do with an attitude of respect for others who have spent time preparing and for yourself. It is to do with belonging to a community. Many 18 year olds think it is ok to attend the minimum - it isn’t. It affects how you perceive what your lecturers do - and ultimately how you understand and respond to the current action.

[turnipfarmers]

My daughter's lecturers weren't striking for her major but they were for the optional unit she chose to study. The other impact was that the exam dates weren't available when they should have been so she wasn't able to plan her revision over the holidays as she wanted to.

[YellowPrimula]

But quarter moon you cannot on the one hand say that students should be attending lectures ( which I agree with) but then at the same time say that lectures being cancelled will not affect students and that everything is on the VLE anyway.

Can you not see that for many people especially first years and parents who may not have been to university themselves this is s very mixed and confusing message.

[Primrosie]

Of course students will suffer- that's the entire point of a strike, surely?
If no-one noticed there would be no point in striking.

Out of interest, does the strike include not responding to Yr12 students? My DD wants to study a fairly niche subject on a new course. The course details on the website for the uni in question were sketchy so she e-mailed the general admissions address given on the course page and got a standard reply with generic link to the course page she had already spend time poring over.

She then e-mailed the professor listed on the course page (3 weeks ago) and has had no reply at all. Could it be the strike which has caused this?

If not, I find it surprising that this uni has twice ignored a genuine question about modules. Is it too much trouble to reply to a 17 year old considering spending a precious 3 years and £50,000 studying their course?

Needless to say she won't be applying there now. She is disappointed and disillusioned as she had looked into the research done at this uni and the faculty, and the people running the course and thought it looked fantastic, exactly her interests.

As a parent I want to support my DD following her interests but counsel her against making a her a mistake for which she would pay dearly for years to come.

I agree that very small group tutorials with leading academics are worth their weight in gold but are rarely available outside Oxbridge.
Interactive small group teaching will hone critical thinking skills in a way that sitting in a lecture theatre of 200 won't. argumentative feminist- you are indeed privileged if your course includes this- which uni is it?

£50,000 would buy DD an amazing couple of years exploring her subject, getting work experience, living and working in the areas that interest her.
A much cheaper VLE led course, with access to good libraries in a shorter time would surely serve the same purpose as most uni courses outside the elite few, particularly for the humanities.

University USED to be a real privilege, particularly as it was funded by the taxpayer.
I feel very nervous now that some universities, their academics and courses are excellent but the majority are not and it is so difficult for most DC and their parents to sort out which is which if you do not move in the usual London-based Oxbridge-centric circles of HE mumsnet posters and have teachers who subscribe to the "all degrees are equal" philosophy as it means an easier UCAS round and soothes their socialist consciences. But they don't have to live with the consequences.

I am slowly getting a list of criteria which marks out the poorer unis beyond the usual league tables though:

Unis where strikes have disrupted students' education (with a subset for those who have made little effort to mitigate the effects.)
Courses where the professor can't be bothered to reply to a student who loves their subject
Unis where academics have a low opinion of students, thinking that they CBA to attend lectures so are happy for the VLE to replace them.
Unis with no small group teaching.
Unis which don't actually provide 24 teaching weeks but pretend they do as described by sweetiebaby

I hope DD at least takes a gap year to really consider her future before she signs her life away.

Sorry OP, and thank you for raising these issues.