Consultant to help chose university?

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We live in Ireland and our 15 year old goes to a good state school. The careers/ further education advice is very lacking. It is basically assumed everyone will go to one of 2 universities within walking distance unless they want to do some subject not offered and then they might want to take the bus across the city.
DD doesn't want to study in Ireland. She would like to study in the US or possibly the U.K. I would prefer Ireland or the U.K. for her but am open to persuasion.
Are there consultants who advise on the higher education systems in the US and the UK. How the applications work, what college might suit her etc

She is a bright child, straight A student and wants to explore her options.

I wouldn’t use a consultant because you can easily find out information for yourself. The universities in the uk have clear information about subjects they teach and all the info you need to apply as an EU student. You have league tables for subjects and universities. You need to think about which city university or whether campus is best. Location means quite a lot to some students. She may want to have an airport within striking distance!

USA universities charge a phenomenal amount for their courses. Some are $40,000 a year and then living costs and travel on top. I went to a talk from the Fulbright Commission and the costs are frightening, unless you are mega rich or mega clever of course. However, some Usa universities offer “needs blind” places. Ivy League mostly. They take all the best students and fund them if they need it after means testing. They are fiercely competitive to get into of course. Applications are lengthy too and the degrees are less specialist and more general than UK ones in the first instance. If she has her heart set on a specific subject, the uk might be best. Some people find it easier to study in the USA after a first degree here.

She can start by thinking about subjects, possible uk locations and checking out the best universities. Employability is quite a big thing now as well as course content. Hope that helps.

There are lots of consultants in London who advise on US applications. My understanding is that you can expect to pay £10,000 or so for their advice. American friends suggest that not all are as good as they say they are. However I disagree with Bubbles. I don't think it is that easy to go through the process by yourself. A common approach in London is to consider a move for sixth form to a school with a track record for American applications. ASC Cobham is one example which offers boarding. Westminster School, another. Or Southbank.

Post Brexit the cost differential between teh UK and the US may not be that much.

The UK is much easier. Like Ireland it has a single application form (we considered RoI for DD), called UCAS. A good starting point is the Completely University Guide. Search by subject and the ranking should give you a rough idea of where a course stands. Then look at individual University websites, if necessary emailing them asking for what they are looking for in terms of Irish qualifications. And your daughter could also look up Universities/courses on The Student Room. The latter will give an indication of how over subscribed a course is, or ewhether achieving entry grades will guarantee a place.

She might be interested in a course that offers the chance to study in the US for a year. Quite a lot do.

I'd be happy to give some guidance on UK options if you let me know grades and subject areas. I work in admissions in a RG.

I didn’t say it was easy to apply to a Usa university yourself! I said it was possible to do the research!

Thanks.

If there was a good reputable consultant I would pay as we will be funding her education and that of 3 siblings. Good advice is less expensive than dropping out and repeating a year. I expect by the time she goes EU fees in U.K. universities will be gone.

I will get her to look at the sources mentioned. A course with a full year in the US might appeal.

And thank you for offer Timbuktu I might take you up on it.

Post Brexit the cost differential between the UK and the US may not be that much.

I think that Irish citizens will still pay UK rates, under reciprocal agreements that predate the EU and are linked to peace agreements.

Instead of paying a consultant outside the HE system, I would wonder whether you could pay an academic for advice? I am always astonished that people will pay so much for consultants instead of approaching academics (who would do it for much less, possibly nothing, as we are so used to doing widening participation/outreach work for free). I guess it's because people just don't know where or how to look for academics.

The vast majority of students don’t drop out from university and I really would not see this as a major worry. Uk courses are pretty easy to evaluate and so much detail is available on each year of the course and what to expect. The university drop out rates are also ranked! The best universities have the best retention rates.

Apart from the USA dimension, I cannot see what a consultant can find out what you cannot! Obviously students have to have a subject in mind, and if you said what area of study DD is interested in, you would get opinions on the best places to study in the UK from posters.

Many parents are paying towards their DCs education and want them to succeed. Very very few get a consultant to help because in many ways it is such a personal choice. It’s perfectly possible to think of what matters to your DD regarding the course and university and rank each one you look at. Go and visit the shortlist you come up with. I would not trust the views of a consultant who could still advise somewhat arbitrarily if their recommendations are not tailored to her needs. Stick with your own intuition and you won’t go wrong. Start at the top of the rankings and work down!

I offered some (free) advice to a few Americans looking at applying to UK universities. Part of that advice was that some of information their American consultants had given them was plain wrong (and in one case wrong on very basic things like how many universities to apply to and whether they are likely to be interviewed as well as less obvious errors). The impression I got from those discussions was that it is getting both harder and more expensive for Americans to go to American universities. They felt they would get a more prestigious university here. You can get plenty of (free) help here.

The place to begin research on the UK is here www.ucas.com/ Your daughter might want to look at the Student Room website too.

Although this might appeal to your daughter - if she goes to America she may meet a partner there and want to stay there.

They do exist, but they aren't often used by UK students.

I would suggest taking her to a UCAS convention - one in a big city is best - London at the ExCeL in April is the biggest of them all, with the most universities represented, and it's very near City Airport, which flies direct to Dublin. She will be able to go along and speak to staff (and often current students) from UK universities. They're free events, mainly aimed at those in their penultimate year of school (16/17) and planning to apply that autumn (though you do see the odd 15/16 year old and that's fine too). It's a good way to find out what's available and start narrowing down choices prior to visiting. www.ucas.com/ucas/events/find/type/exhibition?keywords=&sort_by=field_event_date_value

Open days, taster days and the like are good for narrowing down to the 5 she can apply to and then her firm and insurance (favourite and second favourite offers).

I work in the sector and spend my working life advising students of the options out there (I'm not an academic, I specialise in this sort of thing). If you would like to PM me an idea of subject(s) she's considering, the sort of grades she's realistically likely to get, and what's important to her in a university (city/campus; urban/town/rural/coastal; sports facilities; nightlife etc. etc.) then I'd be happy to advise on places to consider.

Also have a look at the following websites
www.ucas.com (applications portal and guidance on applications)
unistats.ac.uk (quantitative data sets)
thestudentroom.co.uk (peer-to-peer advice)
university.which.co.uk (% applicants given offers)

It's a well-worn statistic in outreach, but always seems to surprise people; 70% of graduate jobs accept people with a degree in any subject. The remaining 30% are nurses, architects, doctors, engineers and the like where you need a particular degree. Whatever she chooses there will be plenty of career options out there; encourage her to choose something she loves.

The cost of going to university in the US or UK is significantly higher than what you will pay in Ireland. The value to be gained from attending a highly-ranked university is realised at postgraduate research level rather than undergraduate level. It really isn't worth the significant extra investment at undergraduate level.

There are relative few exceptions. For example, Oxbridge is well worth the money at undergraduate level. Another option is to consider universities in the EU where fees are much lower than in the UK or US. Delft, Amsterdam, Heidelberg, Munich, Leuven, Leiden, etc.

However, other than a few exceptions, I would very strongly urge you to keep your money and invest in postgraduate rather than undergraduate level. There is a strong case for investing in the very best postgraduate degree for your child. This will have a far greater impact on your child's future.

I would advise against paying a consultant. Consultants in this area are mainly snake-oil merchants.

I’m sorry abi, but that’s just wrong about waiting until postgrad before you see better returns from a degree if you go to a higher ranked university. There is now information in the public domain which shows if you do Economics undergrad at the LSE you will probably start on a salary 3 x that of a grad with an Economics degree from Wolverhampton. Where you go matters and what you study matters too, at least at the higher end of graduate jobs and salaries. You can study what you want, anywhere you want, but don’t expect a top merchant bank to take you as a grad trainee unless the course and the university are top notch! Sociology or Criminology probsbly won’t cut it for those sorts of jobs. If a parent is spending money, then it pays to make it count!

Thank you all.
She still has 3 years left in school after this one. Next year, transition,is effectively a year to mature and explore what she wants to do before she does 2 years study towards her Leaving Cert.

She wants to do a liberal arts degree in the US, preferably Southern California and to probably stay there. She is a dual Irish/US citizen so that would be an option. I would prefer she didn't settle 6000 miles away at such a young age so will definitely encourage her to look closer to home with maybe a year in the US.
I will definitely get her to look at a UCAS convention. She likes history,economics and maths. She did some psychology and criminology courses outside school.

Finding out about the US process is really the issue.

Liberal Arts degrees do exist - to a limited extent - in the UK, and some have study abroad options e.g.
Bristol www.bristol.ac.uk/arts/study/undergraduate/liberal-arts/
Leeds courses.leeds.ac.uk/G809/ba-liberal-arts-ug

Some degrees are readily combined as joint honours or a major/minor split. For instance, Economics and Maths or Psychology and Criminology would have a variety of options whereas History and Psychology combined would limit her options in terms of where she could study.

BubblesBuddy

I don't think you read my post correctly.

What you say is yesterday's news. The days when merchant banks are paying top salaries are quickly disappearing.

Higher salaries are increasingly going to those with postgraduate degrees.

AvocadosBeforeMortgages

If you are considering Southern California, the obvious choices are University of California, Los Angeles or San Diego. There are also liberal arts colleges such as Pomona and Clermont McKenna but fees at these colleges are probably in excess of $45,000 with total costs including accommodation, meal plans, etc. in excess of $60,000.

for US citizens the costs at American universities can be a lot different to the costs for UK citizens. Did the American parent go to an American university as some favour their alumni? For American universities I'd start here www.fulbright.org.uk/going-to-the-usa

A number of universities here have started to offer courses that are more like American liberal arts degrees. I dont know enough about them to comment.

High salaries certainly had not disappeared completely from the graduate recruitment market last year, they may be more limited. However if salary was the issue the best course might be economics www.cityam.com/268464/average-graduate-salaries-university-and-subject-go-and

Alreadytaken, medicine graduates, though left of City AMs list, can be expected to out-earn economics graduates. www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-41693230

Whilst looking for the origional data, I came across this, the Economist's attempt to work out value added. Portsmouth heads the table, apparently partly due to their willingness to offer remedial maths and literacy. It seems to suggest that the University you go to does not have much impact on earnings compared to other factors like subject, A level results, family background, the school you went to and so on. It provides an interesting ranking.

OP might take a look at UCLs liberal arts and sciences degree. My understanding is that it is closer to the US approach in that it allows for science majors, whereas most UK degrees are arts only. Plus scope to study abroad. Scottish degrees also allow for a brader first year.

Medic grads will out-earn some economics grads but not all. It does depend on institution. It might be yesterday’s news to the well informed but it is new news to plenty of people who think all degrees in a single subject are the same! The same issue applies to law. You don’t need post grad in law to be a trainee solicitor or similar either. You move on to the professional qualifications. As indeed you do in many professions after graduating.

If you need remedial classes, this alone would suggest the bright lights of a merchant bank might be out of reach. Obviously a first in PPE from Oxford should trump anything from Portsmouth in the job market.

I think Durham do combined subject degrees too. Definitely look at the Fulbright Commission for advice. There are scores of US based charities that offer assistance if you qualify. Or get info from the university itself in SoCal. I do think it’s a bit of a young girl dreaming at the moment, though, so keep looking at the uk options. When she is older, she may narrow down subjects to a couple which could be joint honours. It’s very early days to know what she really wants at the moment, other than sunshine it would appear!

The last thing I want for her is to go to some rat race banking job after studying. The reason we live in Ireland and have our children in state schools is too avoid a totally pressurised rat race lifestyle. That said she has to make her own choices and she probably takes after DH more than me in that she is focused and ambitious.
All the information is really helpful and I will give it to her to pursue. If she wants to do this I can help but she has to make it happen.

Sorry OP to derail your thread. However I take issue with Bubbles bald assertion that many people think all degrees in a single subject are the same. The research I linked to is confirming that pre-University factors such as school results, background etc, have the most influence, but that some Universities appear to provide more value added. And the ones that do, are quite a mixed bunch.

I also think she is wrong with "If you need remedial classes, this alone would suggest the bright lights of a merchant bank might be out of reach. Obviously a first in PPE from Oxford should trump anything from Portsmouth in the job market." I have never been able to work out whether Bubbles has a banking background, but I suspect not. DH, who did study PPE at Oxford, is rarely surprised at people's backgrounds, (the joys of Linked In), and indeed recently had a boss who studied Bournemouth University, ranked fourth in that table, but much lower elsewhere. University is useful for getting your foot in the door, but after that the wider skill set comes into play. So study banking and finance at Portsmouth, then get a back-room operations job with a major bank in Southampton and from there get a tranfer to London.

OP is right. Rat race banking jobs are only for a minority, and I am glad neither of my DC wanted to head in that direction. Some professions rely on technical knowledge gained at university, and for some, including those where post-graduate qualifications are the norm, the quality of the first degree, and the ground covered, can matter. But for many, University will be a way of improving and enhancing the skill set you started off with, both professional and personal. Studying abroad could be a good start.

IME what matters most when it comes to getting graduate jobs after university is
a) having a 2:i or above
b) work experience - the more relevant the better, but something is always better than nothing
c) relevant transferable skills - often gained through work experience, volunteering, societies etc.

And of course, being able to articulate this on an application form - thankfully I had this down to such a fine art by the time I graduated that I got interviews for all but one of the jobs I applied for - a rate unsurpassed by friends. Unless you are going into a job where the subject knowledge is crucial, the degree subject is often irrelevant.

These days it’s not irrelevant. Maybe years ago, but employers are more savvy now. If they are all the same, why is there such a scramble to get into the highest regarded courses at the best universities? If Bournemouth or Portsmouth , for example, are so great, why don’t they have one applicant out of 10 getting a place? Of course people can work their way up in an organisation but it takes longer. You are not on the front foot.

Employers look at A levels. They don’t just look at the degree. They make judgements about the degree. Why wouldn’t they? They make judgements about work experience and all sorts of other factors.

Op. If you are in Ireland to escape the rat race, I’m surprised the local universities are not to your liking. You original post rather seemed to suggest your dd wanted to join it. Straight A’s, the USA etc.

needmoresleep . I mentioned economics because the OPs child seemed to have shown an interest, no sign they were interested in medicine.

Anyway back to the US process. Applicants normally sit exams, SATs being the one most take. You can sit these in Ireland collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/sat/register/find-test-centers

Unlike the UK there does not seem to be a central admission process, you ask for your results to be sent to certain colleges. Each has their own fee. It's a time consuming and expensive process. As American degrees tend to be more generalised you need to emphasis different things in the application process. One of the difficulties in trying to help Americans understand the UK system is that they find it hard to appreciate the different focus.

Fulbright run events where you can get information. You need to go to these early if your child is going to sit the exams so plan on attending one soon. www.fulbright.org.uk/events

Universities with an Erasmus programme can offer a year in USA as well as European or world alternatives. American Studies degree (joint or single) usually asks for a year in USA, paying UK rates I think.
Scottish unis, I am sure you are aware offer free tuition to EU citizens and that includes Eire. But there is a quota so they often ask for higher grades from the EU applicants. I think....

What about Trinity, UCD [or Limerick]? highly regarded, difficult to get into (therefore respected abroad), and the money you save you can spend on the rent.... in Dublin..certainly not the low brow uni next door you are describing in your OP. My nephew from Dublin went to RG in northern uk, and my other nephew went to RG in London. I'm not sure they had a much better exp than if they had stayed in Dublin, but I suppose they wanted a change from home town..

At 15 I wouldn't be too convinced that my child really knew what she was signing up for, uni wise. Do you want to make such a big decision for her at such a young age?