Maths at Exeter, Nottingham or Lancaster?

[HammersRaised]

DD has narrowed down her offers offers to Exeter, Nottingham or Lancaster for maths. Would be very grateful for your opinions on which is the best for maths, student happiness and graduate prospects. Lancaster ranks the highest out the the 3 on the league tables, but how accurate are the league tables? TIA

Thanks user, the league tables I mentioned are the UK ones- CUG, Times and Guardian. Sorry if this sounds dim, but does research quality matter as much at undergraduate level?

The individual courses offered to her are quite varied in the sense that although she didn’t apply for it, Exeter has offered her a 4 year masters with work experience, Lancaster 3 years of study with a year of work placement between year 2 and 3 and Nottingham is straight BSc maths 3 years. I’m thinking some work experience would be a good thing, given how tough the competition at graduate level is for jobs.

She will most likely get an A* in maths. She did very well at AS level maths. Hopefully an A in FM and an A in her third subject.

Yes, research very much matters because course quality in Maths correlates directly with quality of research. Lancaster is simply not considered in the same league as the top UK maths departments. Again, if she likes Lancaster, great, but don't go there just because of (flawed) league tables.

I would comment that for Maths specifically student satisfaction as measured by NSS is inversely correlated with course quality - the harder the course, the better the course (from an employer's perspective) but the lower the NSS ratings. Cambridge is acknowledged to be the "best" Maths course and does quite poorly accordingly to student satisfaction because it is "hard".

Work experience really does not make that much difference for Maths graduates, who are in high demand. The placement quality varies immensely.

Good points user. I’m adding a column for research quality to the spreadsheet

Student happiness/well-being is important to her (and me!) of course. It’s one of the reasons why she chose these 3 as her top choices as the students appear to pretty happy.

It is only the students that answer the questionnaire that count though and lots don’t bother and others get lots of reminders! Imperial college gets lowish satisfaction rates but is a world leading university. Student satisfaction is a flawed method of judging a course. Entry grades are more reliable. This tells you that the best students go onto the high tariff courses. A Cambridge maths applicant is unlikely to look at Lancaster.

Also who finds the work experience? The university or the student? Many universities do not give much help so evaluate whether that is worth much or not. There are holiday internships for work experience anyway.

I think reputation does matter and league tables that over rely on student experience are flawed. The amount of teaching is also another flawed measure. On some courses, the student should be able to research and not be taught every single thing. The better the university, the less teaching quite often! Employers do not necessarily want spoon fed grads.

Whatever your DD does decide, there is a pecking order of universities which is not based on student satisfaction but is based on the quality of the course. Most students do not choose on student satisfaction alone.

If she wants Lancaster, you do not tick an insurance offer. Lancaster is her firm offer. DD did this. You then just get Lancaster. It’s not as good as the others though.

Though of course student satisfaction is only one of 10 measures in the Times ranking, for example. In my opinion I would say it's a very important measure though.
I don't agree that the easier the course, the more satisfied the student. How would that work for something like English?

I did say above that my comments were specific to Maths. Student satisfaction is frequently a poor measure of course quality though. It is even far from clear whether scores for student satisfaction actually measure student satisfaction accurately. And do such scores really reflect student happiness?

BTW student satisfaction is not the only factor in newspaper league tables that is a poor measure or that can be fudged by the university.

(I'm also a bit surprised by the comment that the OP's DD chose these three based on student satisfaction. Nottingham and Exeter don't do particularly well in Maths NSS.)

User, I didn’t say she chose them on maths student satisfaction. Overall student satisfaction/wellbeing/happiness, however one terms it, which is one of many reasons why she likes these 3 the most out of her offers.

sluj. Not all English courses are the same, are they? Not all require the same A level grades and some have more contact time than others. Some courses are far more intense than others and require the exploration of more challenging texts. We know courses and universities are not the same and some courses hold student hands a lot more than others which potentially gives them higher satisfaction scores. Also what is the score based on? Friendly lecturers? Not having to get up too early? Good fun bars at the uni? Cheap accommodation? The satisfaction criteria are endless. That’s why it’s not a measure that is worth much.

Good job it's only one out of ten things measured then !

(Ps pick Fylde!!)

You appear to have misspelled Furness there

Does she have a particular area of mathematics that she is more interested in and do any of the 3 weight their courses towards this area? How much choice of modules will see get or is it a set script? What other similar courses do the universities offer so that if she does decide on a change of track once there she has possibilities?

How many people are on the course? If she is sociable then this might be important as she is more likely to meet like minded people, however go somewhere too big and mixing and making friends can be intimidating.
Joining extra curricular clubs is important for making friends so find out what each uni of city offers.

I did my MA at Nottingham and so only have experience as a mature student. Campus was lovely, good facilities and a short bus trip into the city centre.

I am a sixth form teacher and some of the comments above are how I help students narrow down their choices.

@Discusting thank you so much for your post you have given her loads to think about and research. I must admit, I’m kind of a maths phobic so have no idea what type of maths she likes! Thankfully she doesn’t take after me and loves maths!

DS started maths at Nottingham this year and is loving it. He put Lancaster as his second choice partly because it was further from home and partly because the maths dept at Notts felt more welcoming at the open day with it’s own modern building, we didn’t really establish where the maths dept was based while we were at The Lancaster open day despite me being an ex Lancaster uni student myself. It was a difficult choice though. He also thought that Notts city itself was probably more exciting and diverse than Lancaster.

@Star we didn’t go to the Lancaster or Nottingham open days so are looking forward to the offer holder days at both. Not sure if I should be going to the offer holder day, but judging from the booking system it seems that parents do go. I’d like to see both campuses. Lancaster is very far away from us! We both liked Exeter on the open day.

Lancaster’s research credentials seem pretty good to me

Hammers I am a maths teacher and so do happen to quite like it!

Sadly very few of my students go on to do maths at uni though and none of my current a-level class are continuing with it after school.

I graduated from Lancaster in December and loved it , only down side is if she loves nightlife then there’s only 1 or two clubs.

Some brilliant pubs though. And the accommodation is outstanding.

Oh and I was also county college

Vegan I am and politics are both big at Lancaster though. I really liked the nightlife because it was safe - a couple of big student only clubs where the security got to know you all and you could get a lift home/ free bus home if you’re too drunk.
They look after you in lance

Exeter has very high student satisfaction rates, I think this is because it is a small campus, very pretty and they just seem to like the whole vibe- however, what it isn't is very diverse and metropolitan. Interesting that Imperial doesn't do well with student satisfaction, this may just be due to a slightly less cohesive community feel to it, but undoubtedly the teaching is usually excellent.

@LemonysSnicket 1 or 2 clubs is fine for her. Good to hear that you loved Lancaster! It sounds like a lovely place to study and live.

@Inthedeepdarkwinter She doesn't like any of the London universities for that very reason. I think a nice campus would suit her far better.

Exeter or Nottingham would be above Lancaster for me, as an ex graduate employer. I worked in a very specific field though.

None of the three are especially renowned for maths though so I would say go for the one she likes best.

I bet she'll have a good time at any of them.