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DD rejected from all PhD applications- help!

33 replies

Norugratsatall · 23/12/2017 17:37

DD has applied to four or five different PhD programmes at various institutions such as Francis Crick, ICR etc and had rejections from them all (I think she has yet to hear back from one). She has an MSc in immunology (Merit) and a first class undergrad biomedical science degree. She's currently working as a Research Assistant for a London University. This post is one year though and she needs a PhD to progress further.

I'm hoping someone who works in admissions for this type of institution can help me to help her. My area is arts/humanities so not able to help her myself. No feedback is provided and so she's unaware if it's her personal statement that is the problem or the fact that her Masters is not a distinction.

She is distraught at these rejections and her confidence is at rock bottom whilst simultaneously being aware that it's a hugely competitive field.

Some advice from someone qualified to help would be greatly appreciated. TIA.

OP posts:
Norugratsatall · 24/12/2017 10:49

And I do find it sad that, as per @senioracademic's post, that candidates are excluded from interview based on the fact that they didn't study their undergrad at a top five uni. Is this going to blight her all the way through her academic career? She dropped a grade a A level and went through Clearing. She worked very hard to prove herself and achieved a First. I feel sad for her as there's nothing she can do about this.

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user19283746 · 24/12/2017 11:33

She needs to consider all her options if she is genuinely into going for a PhD. There are many great labs all over the country, many with positions not DTP affiliated.

Yes, this. (I'm not in the field of sciences, but the same advice would apply to my field too.)

Students seem not to realise that there is world class science research outside the "top" UK universities. Oxford and Cambridge are higher in the league tables because they are strong across all subject areas. For any specific research area, they may not however have the very strongest people. At PhD level, it is the calibre of the research group/supervisor that matters most - the calibre of the university as a whole is secondary.

user19283746 · 24/12/2017 11:38

candidates are excluded from interview based on the fact that they didn't study their undergrad at a top five uni. Is this going to blight her all the way through her academic career?

It would not affect anything after PhD. But entrance into funded PhD is very competitive in many areas. My group has over ten times as many applicants as we can take. We often don't shortlist students with top Firsts/distinctions from top institutions, as we have stronger candidates (publications, experience as well) above them.

senioracademic · 24/12/2017 12:51

candidates are excluded from interview based on the fact that they didn't study their undergrad at a top five uni.
I agree with OPs, the answer is 'not at all' if she has the right environment and ability to make a success of her RA posts and PhD.
A lot of PhDs including at the most competitive institutions are funded outside these central programs. However at a top institution I am biased towards those who will run with a project and be productive with the research techniques sooner rather than later. I also want some-one who has already shown that they can write and put data together without a lot of time consuming hand holding and having to essentially write the basics for them. For those with the ability and pro-activeness despite less optimal start for undergraduate / MA this can be demonstrated through their RA posts and the style of writing and presentation of their CV (aimed for a post) and posters etc.
In fact I may well select a proven RA with the proven ability of independent research over some-one with a 1st from Oxbridge who has no real demonstrated technical ability.

She is also right to be open minded about her research topic. It is more important at this sage to aim for a very good lab where previous PhD students have been productive and (as I said before there are cutting edge techniques to be learnt in the institution plus lots of bright people to learn from) than be fixated about a project. She does not need a DTP-affiliated programme to achieve that.

My one note of caution is that again and again one hears of a candidates who are perfect as RAs, may achieve a PhD with a lot of help but clearly are not going to progress as independent researchers. I am not saying this applies to your DD though but any good scientist should be open-minded and she is not being with regards her career route.

Norugratsatall · 24/12/2017 13:03

@senioracademic. Thanks. I believe she does have the ability, her writing skills, maths and data interpretation are pretty good. Her ultimate goal IS to become an independent researcher and her PS in applications reflected this ambition but whether she actually does have the skills/ability I really don't know. I'm her mother, I'm bound to be biased.

I do appreciate all your inputs though and will pass on to DD. A lot of good for thought and it's good to know she DOES have options!

OP posts:
Norugratsatall · 24/12/2017 13:04

Food for thought obvs....

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senioracademic · 24/12/2017 13:14

Good luck to her. The other marker for future progression that differentiates future inependent researchers from good RAs is the amount of reading they are interested in doing around their research area in their spare time.

Norugratsatall · 24/12/2017 13:19

Ah now you've got a point there.... She does do some but only as much as she needs. For example: she read around the subject she was presenting at the recent immunology conference. Time is a factor, she's often in the lab till 10 at night and sometimes weekends. It's a full on career and total commitment is required, of that there is no doubt.

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