Combined Honours degrees?

[ImagoLuna]

DS16 is starting to think about what to study at university and there doesn't so far seem to be a single subject that suits him best. So he's considering a combined honours degree.

Are these generally thought of less well by future employers?

Also, can it mean that two departments expect 100% work and don't take into consideration the demands of the other department? I've heard that this might be the case with Oxbridge degrees - that effectively you end up trying to cover the work for two different degrees at the same time. But is that the case elsewhere?

He's interested in Russell Group unis, wouldn't discount Oxbridge but unlikely to get in and is thinking about combining English and Theology or Theology and Psychology or English and Philosophy. His A level subjects are Eng Lit, RS and Pre-U Philosophy.

No, you don’t do two degrees at the same time. Each subject is reduced. However, some joint honours degrees (not combined degrees) do have the same exams as single honours. Eg the translation exams for MFL. You will do the translation exams for both languages. However, his subjects are not going to give any problems and plenty of universities should offer these joint honours.

He may be slightly disadvantaged for Oxbridge, in that he has one facilitating subject, English, but many RG universities won’t be bothered about this. Start checking out web sites because the university must offer these joint honours. You cannot just take them because you feel like it.

Employers will be fine with a joint honours degree. In fact some will think it shows breadth. What he might want to do afterwards needs some thought with these subjects. What sort of employer would he target? I would check out if he needs maths for Psychology as well. Other subjects he could look at might be Anthrapology, Sociology, International Relations, Politics, Law etc

Look at Bristol, Leeds, Oxford, Durham and Edinburgh for starters!

Usually there are core modules for each subject so other modules options may be more limited a sthe maximum number is less than for a single honours student. It also can create difficulties between attending lectures and seminars for both. For example ds has housemates doing Geography and International Relations and compulsory field trips can mean catching up on missed IR work. There may also be coursework due at similar deadlines to manage. In fact some combinations have proved so problematic that there will be fewer Combined courses offered next year.

I think courses with field trips are more problematic but students often renegotiate deadlines if there are clashes that are not acceptable. The better universities have tried and tested combinations. Personally I think Geography and IR is not a natural fit. English and Philosophy is. You do sometimes get the same options as single honours students but they may get first choice. However, over three years it can even up. If you miss out on something in y2, it may well be there for y3. Generally juggling work and commitments is good practice for paid Work!

Could you contact anyone who could discuss this better, maybe at your DS's school/6 form college or at a potential university?
Is there any reason he would prefer to do a joint honours?
I think that in some universities you do more than one course in your first year and then specialise but I'm not an expert.

Look at the university web sites. Schools never have this level of detail. The universities really do give you all the info you need. For example, look at the undergraduate courses offered by the English Departments and see what joint honours courses are listed. Ditto other subjects. You normally take both subjects from the start. Then book into open days in 2018 to ask any additional questions and get a feel for the universities.

Keele specialise in dual honours. But they arent russell grp

This is really helpful everyone. Thank you. The school by the way had assured us that he wouldn't be disadvantaged just doing 1 facilitating subject, as I'd really worried about that but they said it would be fine as all his subjects were well respected. So I hope that's the case.

The reason he's thought of joint honours is that he loves some aspects of his subjects but not others and wondered if somehow he could combine the most interesting parts into a joint degree.

He really enjoys the ethics parts of RS and Philosophy and philosophy of mind/morality, the 'big' questions, the crossover between philosophy and psychology but he isn't so keen on the history of various religions, logic, epistemiology - the 'dryer' stuff.

He's really good at Eng Lit (and was also great at Eng Lang at GCSE) and writes well but - isn't so keen on what a large proportion of RG Eng courses focus on - early English texts, the classics etc. He doesn't want to have to study an ancient language if he did pure Theology, which many courses seem to expect.

He's one of those students who can draw from lots of areas of knowledge, rather than focus down and get absorbed in one specific subject or topic - and come up with new ideas or ways of thinking about things.

I think he'd not cope well with juggling the potential clashes between two degree subjects and all the rest of university life too. So that seems to leave him considering either Theology, at the moment or English.

His school will advise him later on but he wants to start thinking more about this now. Knowing him so well, I can't see him happily fixed on either of those as a single degree subject and he has absolutely no idea at all about what job he might want to do after uni. So that doesn't help either.

Anyone here know much about Theology degrees? He's probably ruling out Philosophy, as her thinks it'll be too logic-based and he's more the creative/artistic type.

I know nothing about Theology degrees. Sorry. However it is virtually impossible to pick out the bits you like in a degree. There are normally basics that have to be covered and then options. However the options can only be what the lecturers actually teach! Therefore he really does need to widen his interests because you may end up seeking something that does not exist.

Employers will not really care if you have studied Theology or Philosophy or English. They will not ask about modules but if you want RG, I would suggest you are going to get classics and important texts in an English Literature degree. However some degrees will be less classic than others.

Has he considered alternatives? You don’t have to study what you have done at school.

I think you are over worrying about clashes with subjects. Most good universities don’t offer joint honours they cannot timetable efficiently. DD had only minor issues once or twice and it was swiftly sorted because it the same for everyone doing the same two subjects.

Durham have a fab combined jobs degree , now called a Liberal Arts , alsoExeter both very competitive . UCL have a BaSc where you can combine arts and science .

Have a look at Scottish universities. I went to St Andrews and did a joint honours science and language degree, in which I did 2/3 Science and 1/3 language, taking a series of language modules specifically designed for scientists (thus managing to avoid most of the bits of my two subjects I wasn't so keen on).

The modular nature of my course meant that in my first year, once I had chosen the core modules for my main subjects I could also do any other modules from the science faculty to make up the required number of credits. Philosophy had the advantage of being one that could count towards science or arts degrees, so I did a module of logic and metaphysics and 20 years on I still remember lots of it.

This is so helpful! The Liberal Arts degree sounds very interesting. Thanks.

Also, other than Law or possibly Anthropology (not sure he could do that latter one without History or possibly Biology?), what other degrees could he consider that may not be what he's studied at A level? I'm open to all considerations for him.

Scottish Unis do 4 year degrees I think and funding that extra year would be tricky but if there was something he really wanted to do there, I'd see what was possible.

My DD is at Sussex doing Biology with a Philosophy pathway, and so far has been able to choose the parts of Philosophy that interest her. Sussex also offer a foundation year which my DD did as she didn't get high enough grades to get in without.

If you look at the undergrad course finder at the University of Bristol you can search under A levels studied and additionally courses are listed for which you need no prior study. These include Liberal Arts and at least 12 more. This is a good resource to see if any will suit your DS. I am not sure if other universities do the same but it will give you an idea of what to look at. I think it’s a shame he hasn’t got History as this opens a few more doors.

The 4 year Scottish system is normal for funding. There are loads of 4 year undergrad courses in England and Wales too. (MFL, MEng etc) It will cost you more as a parent but 4 years is perfectly acceptable for loans.

I don't know about the subjects but I did joint honours in non supported subjects which the uni allowed me to do. However, it was a nightmare, definitely do not even let him consider doing this.

I ended up with a lot of the admin and found because it wasn't a formal uni joint degree that I had a lot of clashes or five minutes to do a twenty minute journey or exams at the same time and negotiation was a nightmare because no one else was doing my degree - the exam timetable in my final term was three exams a day over two consecutive days because of it, that was almost twenty years ago and I still remember how horrendous it was.

My options basically were two modules each year on top of core

• those are what can add additional interest to a degree (I'm my opinion anyway).

The uni I went to and taught at still offer this option. It's a mistake I dont know anyone who did this who didn't regret it in terms of work and admin issues.

I'll be lying if I said I didn't find my degree helpful. I did it was extremely helpful in employment as the combination was ideal for my career and opened a lot of doors for me, however, it was stress I didn't need and I got a lower class than I was capable of getting. The more common route for my joint degree was to undergrad in one and a conversion masters in the other. I never had anyone comment on my degree (other than its an rare combination).

My DS chose a Scottish university for exactly this reason. He didn’t know which subject would suit him he has very good A levels in art subjects and a science.. At his university (which is in the RG group) you do three subjects in the first year, he chose two from the arts faculty both unrelated to his A levels and one from the science which was one of his A levels. Next year he does either 2 or 3 (depending on module points) and he then he can do a single or joint honours degree. He was offered places at UCL Manchester etc but loved the flexibility the Scottish system offers. He was also advised by a couple of our friends who are very involved in recruitment for investment banks etc that they looked more favourably on a joint honours if the two subjects were unrelated e.g. physics and French because it demonstrated you have two contrasting skills.
All Scottish degrees are four year or five if you do an MFL. Tuition fees are the same as a Uk three (or 4 for an MFL) degree.
He loves university and Scotland in general apart from the rain!

Dd did joint Philosophy and Film at Dundee ( A levels were English Lit, RS, Darama and Geography)
Loved the flexibility of the Scottish degree system ( did some English lit and Psychology in first 2 yrs, then concentrated on Philosophy and Film for last 2 yrs)- didn't have fees for final yr ( just living expenses)
Dundee now offer a £2000 welcome for non Scottish students, so Ds has now gone there! ( we're from Wales)
She then did MSc at Edinburgh and is now teaching in China