Medicine at University - GCSE Requirements

[surreymother]

My daughter wants to do a degree in Medicine and is happy to go to any university. At GCSE she has 3As, 3As, 2Bs, 1C, with the As being in Science, Maths & PE. Her teacher has told her that these are not high enough and you need 8A*s to study Medicine. However, according to many of the university prospectus these grades would be acceptable. Is her teacher wrong or are the published GCSE grades required just a minimum with the reality being that offers are only made to students with much higher GCSE grades?

Make sure to check sixth form's policy on predicted grades. Is it likely to be generous/optimistic and give the required AAA?
DC could have promising mock grades, UKcat/BMAT, extra-curricular and loads of volunteering, but if school decides not to back pupil i.e. it rigidly uses mock grades below A in Yr12 as predictions in Yr 13, it could enforce a gap year.
Some pupils in DC's school have predicted grades no higher than the mocks. Then others - albeit in non-medicine subjects- are applying with generous predictions, Cs in mocks to As - contrary to school's official line that it only puts each grade up by one point. DC knows pupils who moved to different schools for sixth form they've also got v. generous predictive grades - some enhanced from Ds to As post mocks. It's really a crap system and open to all sorts of jiggery pokery on the part of schools.

It's very important that pupil gets AAA predicted, as med schools use this guesstimate as a filtering system. Often it will be University admin staff doing the initial sifting. So even if your child just falls short of a grade, those with the remit to make decisions may never get to see the application.

Bristol value work experience very much and certainly look at the all round suitability to train to be a Dr. My DDs friend was there with a contextual offer and did very well on the course. It makes for a more diverse cohort of students and sometimes Bristol is flamed for having too many public school students. It’s good to see they have a slightly different approach from some other universities.

Bubbles. What are you talking about. There are relatively few independent school medics at Bristol, especially if you add in the grad students, internationals, and those who came through access courses. There are a surprising number from Belfast, and lots from Northern comps. Your DD must have been in some sort of Wills bubble.

For pp, there are some which will look at AAB predictions. It is Bristols standard contextual offer, but there are others. I think Liverpool but would need to check.

If your dd wants to do medicine, pick your choices strategically. Don't go for the uni's she likes. Scrutinise application criteria and pick the ones which stress her strong points, also pick a variety of selection criteria - eg 1 bmat, 1 uccat etc
Its possible, but your dd needs to think how badly she wants to do medicine, and if she'd be happy anywhere she gets a place and then apply accordingly.
Also work on interview skills and extra curricular activities, while focusing on school and academics. She needs those As at A Levels.
Many places may say they only want x GCSEs but if they a lot of candidates with higher and they need to find reasons to reject people then they'll start rejecting those with lower GCSEs which still techincally meet their entry requirements.

The Student Room has a lot of helpful articles about choosing a uni that’s best for your grades.

Only a few unis will look at GCSEs so exclude them if he doesn’t have straight As. Someone I went to school with initially for straight rejections from 4 unis as despite having decent grades he applied to ones that wanted high GCSE grades. He applied again the next year to a different selection and got in.

Needmore - how is your DD getting on at Bristol? Is she enjoying the course?

A number of schools only look at meeting a minimum number of GCSEs and then ignore it all together to decide on how to interview and only based on UKCAT/BMAT results, Exeter only going on expected/achieved A levels, so she still has many options.

What she will need to be careful is to ensure that those don't expect As in Sciences and English Language. For instance, Manchester only require 5 A or A*, but English Language, Maths and 2 sciences need to be at least a B. Once this is met, it doesn't matter any longer. What subject did she get the C in?

I'd be wary of relying on a contextual offer. The eligibility criteria are incredibly strict and numerous. Only the most deprived postcodes, as defined by Polar or Acorn or whatever. Lots of the geographical definitions are crude. Many inner city, developing urban areas, with the very rich, cheek by jowl, with benefits' claimants are excluded, for example.

Thousands apply. Universities look for people who've overcome extreme adversity, eg, bereavement, fled war torn country, had to care for close relative. Coming from a family that's cash strapped and from a low participation group doesn't get applicants on the radar as it once did.

finnto, I don't disagree that contextual offers are hard to come by. However Bristol is an exception to the rule, as they consider such offers routinely for anyone coming from their list of the 40% lowest achieving schools. Which may explain why they have so many applications. There are some others that will consider applications from students with predicted AAB, but will offer at AAA.

Obviously the advice has to be to try to do as well as possible on each of the potential criteria. Get the volunteering/shadowing in, even if it is volunteering in the local old folks home. DDs advice is to nail the chemistry A level. People will get in with dropped grades, but rarely chemistry. My advice is to practice UKCAT, especially timings, as much as you can. Being on the 80th percentile rather than the 70th, say, makes a huge difference in where you can apply. And practice really helps.

Then, again, apply strategically, and if your application is not the strongest, treat the Yr13 application as a trial run and don't allow it to distract you from getting the best A level results possible. Being a doctor is not just academics, though obviously you need a certain level to avoid struggling through the course. The NHS is calling out for good sensible GPs, just as much as they want cancer researchers.

And Pixel, yes Bristol is working out well. As you might expect from somewhere which puts emphasis on the PS, there is a real diversity of students, who are slowly bonding into a good group. Bristol has a "rah" reputation but this does not seem to apply at all to the medics, and DD is also finding herself surrounded by northerners in her sports team. Good as she had wanted to move beyond the London private school bubble she grew up in. (They all grow up in their own bubbles!) She has found the pace pretty gentle to start with, but perhaps that is to help ease in those who had less training in study skills. I would be surprised if the eventual correlation between A level results achieved and final performance is that strong. Things are hotting up and there is a huge amount of material to learn. She is finding the course really interesting, and likes the early exposure to patients. Bristol itself is beautiful, and there are lots of University as well as medic things to get involved with. There is some conflict between the life styles of science and humanities students in halls (medics have 30 hours per week compulsory contact time with four 9.00am starts), but this will solve itself in the second year, and presumably common where medical schools are in University settings.

My daughter chose BSMs ( was lucky enough to have offers from HYMs,Leicester and Nottingham too).They Have early patient contact , full dissection and a great reputation for supporting students.Medics at BSMS are limited to a few halls due to longer /different term dates to other courses. Accomodation is mostly with other medics which I think has been hugely helpful , although some might find it insular.

Indeed, it's not just Bristol which has a more opened access to contextual offers. Exeter to do and indeed BSMS. BSMS look at inviting 30% to interview to those who fall under their contextual offer which is not that restrictive so although I wouldn't suggest relying on a contextual offer, I think it is certainly something to consider if there is a chance that the criteria are met.

Yes Needmore good to hear Bristol is going well! DD says the same about Cardiff where she is studying - there’s a huge difference in the hours the medics work compared with some other courses. In January they also go on placement once a week.

Obviously the alternative, if predictions are not good, is to try for a place on an access course. I assume requirements vary. Bristol seems to want you to come from their, rather long, list of contextual schools, and require at least a BBC prediction including BB in Chemistry and one of Biology, Physics or Mathematics. More importantly though you would have to demonstrate sufficient potential and determination to reassure them that you could manage the course. Similar courses are offered by others. I understand the competition is tough.

And Pixel, glad your DD is enjoying Cardiff. After the stress of getting the place, I think DD was a little worried she would not enjoy the course. Instead she finds it fascinating.

needmore - I do not think you read what I said. I referred to the whole university of Bristol being flamed for having too many independently educated students. Not the medic course!!!! It is well known to be independent school heavy. Perhaps look at the stats?

I would appreciate it if you were not quite so attacking in your comments to me. It feels rather abrupt and rude and there is no need for it.

Come visit us on the Medicine thread. Actual parents of kids currently getting interviews. Each university varies massively but all need either the UKCAT or BMAT. Some use GCSEs more than others. As an example, Sheffield require 6 As at GCSE and predicted 3 As. As long as you have that they really don’t care ! You are ranked by your UKCAT and top 1000 invites to interview. Cardiff need 8 As usually. Liverpool count A and A*s the same.
You need to research, visit and ace the UKCAt (which is a vile horrid torture of a test). But those grades are fine !!

Oh and if not got an A in English Language then check requirements (there are great spreadsheets on medic portal and TSR). One of my DDs friends was rejected last year from all 4 even though she had 11 A*s. As she had a B in English !! Didn’t apply carefully enough

Bubbles, Not wanting to derail the thread, but I don't think comments like " the whole university of Bristol being flamed for having too many independently educated students" are useful. DD found this reputation off-putting, despite the fact that very few of her privately educated London friends had Bristol in their sights. In practice, perhaps because of the choices she has made around societies, halls and course, she has met relatively few privately educated students, and those she has met have been from smaller quite obscure schools.

There is obviously a visible group of more affluent students who can afford a more cappuccino lifestyle, but they tend to stick to themselves and to certain halls. It would be very sad if good students were put off applying to a medical school which is making great efforts to widen access because MN posters assert that Bristol is a known party university full of public school types.

Everyone i know who didnt have the grades to study medicine in the uk has studied it in eastern europe (hungary/czech/bulgaria) and then come back here to practice with no problems. They have lower grade requirements there

I thought a lot of med schools filtered out people with lower GCSE's, they look at the number of people and filter out say the bottom 20% of gcse results? So they won't even look at their applications. Same with UKCAT, they will filter out anyone with a score below x.

I studied dentistry not medicine but that was definitely the case when I studied 6 years ago. I would look at the entry requirements very carefully with regards to gcses, does your DD have one science GCSE? Or does she have double award?

TheCow things have changed. A lot. Please please do not give out wrong information as it’s not fair. V few universities use GCSEs as their only interview selection criteria. Cardiff & Oxford are the only one that I can think of where they require loads of top grades. Most use them as part of a group of things. Some, as stated, only choose by UKCAT as long as you have their minimum requirements (usually 6 As and Bs in English and maths). Sheffield, Southampton, Newcastle do this. Most look at GCSEs, predicted grades, UKCAT/BMAT and personal statement and score each separately.