Economics degree without A level economics

[ProfessorLayton1]

Dd has just started A levels... she did not decide what A levels she wanted to till she had her GCSEs . Scored well in GCSE - she is taking French,chemistry, biology, maths and FM.
Last week she wanted to take English literature but decided against it ( I was happy for her to swap any of her subjects with this)
This week she wants to try economics😳
Is this normal?
I have trawled through economics requirements for various universities and A level economics is not required??
Has anyone done economics at university without A level economics..knowing her she would try for Cambridge/LSE but I understand that this is only one of 5 choices.
Frankly I have had enough of this and would like to settle down on her subjects at least by the end of this month...
Although the universities say you don't need economics will she be disadvantaged?

Thanks everyone. I have trawled various universities prospectuses to get finer details of what they want.
Difficulty is sometimes they really spell everything out..i.e further maths for certain courses
So in theory she can choose science degree / economics/ medicine/ language degree but so much depends on the A level subjects she chooses..it is unfair for a 16 year old who has no idea what she wants to do!
Sometimes I really wish we have IB choice for her but where we live the provisions for this is nil.

Professor the IB is no real advantage to your DD since she is being allowed to and is capable of starting with 5 A levels plus has the option to switch at present.
With regards economics, if she is interested but still really likes all of her other 5 subjects then she can do some economics based reading outside school such as the Economist. As long as she has one essay subject as well as the maths /FM plus lots of appropriate extracurricular reading she should be ok for most competitive economic courses.

Having said that it is possible that her present dilemma is of wanting an A level subject where she can have more discussion, express ideas than her current ones. That may call for compromise with her STEM subject selection or deciding to use extracurricular activities as the outlet.

I agree sendsummer. I think that narrowing down to 3-4 subjects at 16 is a terrible idea for most students. My 15 year old needs to choose this term and she has very little idea what she wants to do later in life. Which I think is perfectly normal and healthy at this age! Yet the A-level system means they really do narrow down their options significantly. I think that that England and Wales has the narrowest system in the world! (and I see a lot of international UCAS forms)

I am not sure if this is the right thing to do but I have told her that she can do the subjects she wishes to do but do the exams in what she would like to pursue in career as long as she is not struggling with the work load.. which she is not but hey ho.. it is early days.
One good things about this whole thing is she is much more communicative with us and spend a lot of time discussing stuff in general..
We are not French speakers so am aware that will take a lot of time but it won't matter if she gets a C as long as she enjoys it and she would have gained something useful in life.Of course that is she wants to science or economics degree..

Is French an essay subject?

3 of my children did economics in the sixth form and adored it (and I love it too). It is a really good and interesting A level and whilstn ot a "facilitating" subject if you look at what A levels people get who go to good universities it features highly as of course do all her other subjects which are mainstream good facilitating subjects. My daughter regretted chemistry by the way - her worst A level even though she had very good science A levels, Also only do maths A level if you are really good at it as although 30% of people (very very high) get A* loads of people also get Ds. Anyway it sounds like she is very good at maths if doing further maths.
French is the outlier there - probably best not to do it. I did German A level but that went with my arts A levels (I am a lawyer so you can do any good mainstream A levels at all for that)

I do think she should replace French with economics. If she might not do science or medicine at university then I would replace chemistry with the economics.

If she might want a city business or law career then she needs the highest A level grades she can get so needs to work out what will get her most As and A*.

A Level economics is not required because the first year of most uni level economics courses is spent rehashing it alongside basic GCSE level statistics. Your dd would not be disadvantaged in taking it, and in fact may then be able to concentrate on other subject areas she perhaps finds tricker (statistics, business, etc).

Nuttynoo - in my experience as an Economics lecturer, first year uni economics is a world away from A-level, certainly at Oxbridge etc. A level Economics is not required because i) we start from first principles and don't assume any knowledge ii) much of A-level needs to be unlearned iii) even when A-level does not need to be unlearned exactly, the approach is very different iv) we go far beyond A-level very quickly. My undergrads say we basically cover A-level microeconomics in the first week.

I guess the advantage of Economics A-level is that the student has a good idea as to what the subject is about and so has a good change of fitting with the degree.

It's also an essay subject, so worthwhile if the other A-levels are Science/Maths.

Fairly sure I read an article (poss Guardian) that pointed out that more Economics students have Maths A level than Economics..

iregularegular
If they have not studied economics at A level then will they cope if the entire A level microeconomics is taught in a week?
I can see both sides of the argument but how would someone develop an interest and be good at the interview if they have not had any exposure to that subject?
I did 6subjects for A level (different country)so I can completely see her point when having difficulty in choosing her A levels.
She is quite academic and all I want is to make sure that she chooses her subjects correctly and is not disadvantaged as she is quite capable of giving a shot at top universities.

Agree with a pp that the first year is just spent rehashing a level content

I went to LSE and in the first year all undergraduates do the same 4 modules. Having taken economics in a level helped in that I didn't need to study so hard but i reckon you could do without.

Having said that, I enjoyed economics a lot at A level. I did double maths, physics & economics as thought that would keep my options open.

Another economics lecturer here - agree with others that A level is not needed or even particularly desirable, The problem is that A level economics does not teach the building blocks of the subject in the way that A level history or maths does. Students mere know some things about economics they don't really understand why or what the economic approach is about. Far better to do some maths, statistics, an essay based course (specially something like history which looks at causation) and just think about economic problems. "why does immigration NOT push wages down?" "why has UK productivity plateaued?" etc

ProfessorLayton French includes essays of course but involves less analytical writing at A level than for example history (popular with PPE candidates)

If they have not studied economics at A level then will they cope if the entire A level microeconomics is taught in a week?

It isn't really the entire A-level microeconomics taught in a week, that's just how I've heard my students characterize it. In reality undergraduate economics is something quite different. But the part that mostly closely resembles A-level micro we essentially get out of the way in Week 1. Also, if you did A-level Economics 25+ years ago, as I did, then it covered more proper micro theory then than it does now.

They have absolutely no problem with the pace, or at least no more than those with A-level Economics. It's the few without A-level Maths (about 1 in 20 at my college) that really struggle. Basically I just ignore A-level Economics and start again, whereas I assume A-level Maths (and give extra help on the side if necessary). Similarly, the interview is designed not to need any knowledge of Economics.

There's nothing wrong with Economics as an A-level if it interests the student, but it's no more desirable as preparation for Economics than many other subjects. It's also relatively easy to find economics related reading to pursue and develop an interest without taking A-level.

Thank you all for all the helpful comments.
She has realised that doing French A level ( only subject she was sure to begin with) may not be a good idea. She went to a Economics class and liked it.
As a pp said French is an outlier if she wants to keep all her options open.
If she continues Maths, FM, Chemistry, Biology and Economics- then she can apply for science/ Maths / Economics / medicine degree.
It does make me sad as she really wanted to do French but something has to give way.
Maybe the above combination will be less onerous than doing French instead of economics.. not sure!
I have said that she can take her time to decide but need to make up her mind in the next couple of days.

I think if she really wanted to do French, she should do it! Interest in a subject counts for so much at A level.

You absolutely do not need to have studied A level Economics for the degree. Maths and Stats skills are crucial.

Thanks irregularegular
Have learnt a lot about economics while researching it on google.
It never struck me that women are so underrepresented in economics..I am a doctor and this is how medicine was 30-40 years ago.
Did say to her that she can self read economics if she wants. I will show all your posts to her as well.

God, I'd keep doing the French.

Some places offer two routes for economics degrees. Manchester University has a maths heavy BSc route and a more theory based BA route that doesn't need maths, I think. But is she's strong in maths that shouldn't matter.

Geography is compatible subject with economics. And French.

I do rather feel that if she wanted to be a doctor, she should know by now and be planning some relevant work experience. Therefore, other careers seem more likely.

If she is sure of high grades whatever she does it is hard to know whether to pick economics or French. My 3 who did economics in the sixth form did love it and my daughter says it was the most relevant A level to her future business life (she did not read it at university) and nor is it like law A level (which is not a good one for lawyers to do at all - it is best avoided). Instead economics at A level is well regarded. She will need to decide soon if she is going to switch.

Is French harder to get high grades in than economics? My son kept economics to upper sixth and dropped music A level even though he was pretty assured to get A or A in music after AS because music meant an awful lot of extra work apparently (yes some of us have teenagers who pick subjects with less work in them..... plus he loved economics too but it was a difficult decision balancing grades at AS etc; but if your daughter will have high grades whatever she does then it's best she picks what she prefers). If she got mostly A star at GCSE then grades may not be an issue. If not then do think about which is most onerous and harder work and chances of higher grades in - economics or French. My son was hoping for an A in economics A level but got A this summer not that it really mattered to his university place. I suppose he might well have got an A* in music had he carried on with that after AS. It's all a bit of a slight lottery but comes out in the wash in the end and won't matter in a few years' time.

I agree with doing something you enjoy. However French is more a skill than a subject, and there is nothing to stop her keeping it up outside school. Perhaps a subscription to a French magazine, or a holiday job, or some form of course/camp in France next summer.

DD did sports training in France, starting with an exchange with a similarly sporty French girl, but she then started getting invited back when the team had a key match. Her grammar is awful and her accent interesting (chi'ti) but it was interesting that the chalet owner during her ski season normally preferred DD as translator than colleagues with French A levels.

I agree with irregular on the narrowing down. Life is a lot more than top grades. Studying a language will mean broadening horizons, a different sort of diligence that you get from the study of maths/science etc. DC were lucky in that their school expected them to keep/take up something different during Yr12, (music art, a language, sign language etc) and happened to choose a practical subject which was examinable. Both really enjoyed the contrast to their other subjects. DD also gained a range of skills from her sport which will help her be a good student (and doubtless DS gained similar from his gaming).

Having witnessed first hand the Central London extra-curricular arms race of Ivy league applicants, it seems strange that US Universities place so much emphasis on non academic achievements and the UK so little. There must be a happy medium.

Need, I suppose int he UK it's about trying to be fair to students with not much money who have not played lacrosse for the county and done their Gold D of E whilst having 2 grade 8s in music (not too far different from most of my 5 lucky children (and also hard working - you don't get 4 grade 8s my older son has without hours and hours of practice and sticking to something when everyone else is out having fun)). Yet the UK may shoot itself in the foot by not taking notice of the non A level stuff as education should be about rounded people with lots of interests languages arts. My brother who is a pretty good ex Cambridge doctor entered writing competitions despite doing science/maths A levels at school, is a very talented musician etc etc and I am sure that wide range of skills has had just as big an impact in his ability to deal with patients as exam grades, never mind giving you hobbies to help you balance work and the rest of life.

My daughter's old schol NLCS does the IB for those who want it although she was happy to do A levels only and give subjects up.

I would probably swap the French for economics in the case in hand here; but let the girl decide. It will not make much of a difference either way.

There is no reason why French cannot be continued at university with Economics. It is a facilitating subject and is "worthy". Universities love linguists - there are too few of them!

It seems strange that US Universities place so much emphasis on non academic achievements and the UK so little

The most competitive UK universities are really selecting for the next generation of university academics. The US universities are also looking for 'future leaders' (including of course those who have the potential to earn lots of money and be donors).