Labour Manifesto Scraps Tuition Fees

[bojorojo]

So the draft manifesto says Labour want to scrap tuition fees. Like thousands of other students, my DD2 has student debt of £40,000. Is this fair on existing students and how will university funding be affected? What are the likely consequences?

Gilly not true, more wc children going to university than ever previously. Or adopt the Scottish model and remove places for wc children. Or limit places, such as nurses, and import the staff you need from poor countries?

THe evidence from Scotland is that no fees has been socially regressive

if there are no fees then places will be drastically cut
again socially regressive

back to when I was at Uni - 5% most of whom had been a private school

no thanks

Student finance is a well targeted graduate tax
what needs changing is that Uni fees should be linked to repayment rates

Talkin , sorry if I am being dim
what do you mean by this "what needs changing is that Uni fees should be linked to repayment rates"

I apologise if it obviously to all but me.

Basilisk
Universities are allowed to charge up to £9000 for all courses
even the utterly crap ones
they get the dosh
the taxpayer gets the risk

it would be better if they took part of the repayment risk
or that courses with low repayment were fee capped

Ah - get you . Sorry so courses with higher repayment experience / model can charge more.

Sorry - get you now
Thank you

Labour has said those starting in September (I have two starting in September so it is pretty relevant here) will pay fees but will get some kind of refund later during the year.

As there is not much chance Labour will get in it is pretty irrelevant.

The system rewards those who pick degrees which will never pay well or if they plan not to work much in their lives or stay at home with children which is a bit silly.

The IFS has said that the Labour cost of £9.5bn for this is too little - income from fees is set to be £13.5bn by 2021/11, so either the cost goes up (via taxes) or funding to unis gets cut by 30% (fewer places). Their intro to this section of their presentation said this policy benefits the most privileged as those are the people who will go to university and become the beneficiaries of the potential to earn higher incomes as a result. Barnett formula adds to the cost of this policy.

www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9217

Today JC has said he'd like to write off all historic student loan debt, £30 bn,

Wow! He loves to spend !!

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/86362/jeremy-corbyn-labour-could-write

Good Lord! I feel sorry for people with this debt, but where the hell is £30bn going to come from?! Wait - they're going to be taxed at 90% to pay for their own debt.

The ironic thing is that the 18-24 age group who so love JC will discover over their working life that someone has to pay for the huge ramp up in debt...and it will be them because all us (higher tax paying) oldies will have retired (to our life of non means tested pensioner benefits - lol!)

And it will be every homeowner, because that Land Value Tax in the small print of the manifesto is in there for a reason - so that the House of Lords can't vote against it, when it is bought in to raise additional revenue to fill the inevitable funding gap.

Also, it was at first new starters paying no fees, then Labour realised that current students wouldn't like this so the free fees was altered to encompass them, and now they're thinking that 20-somethings are left out, so to hook them in it's now all fees paid are cancelled. (Well, so they say , anyway.)

But haven't existing debts been sold off?

How can the state write off debt it doesn't own?

The state will pay off those debts Carl. £30 bn. Not in the manifesto. Not costed (they've run out of the top 5%!). Additional debt.

But don't worry - the deficit will be cleared within 5years. I think Diane Abbott did the maths in the manifesto....

But do the current owners of that debt want to sell?

Don't know Carl - there's not a lot of detail/costings available around this "throw away line" that JC said the other day...it seems that LadyinCement has got this right. First it was students starting in 2018....then because they were worried lots would defer from 2017 start to 2018 start to avoid fees, they included 2017 starters....and then when lots of people said that's not fair, I've got debts from the past, he said...we'll find a way to pay off those debts too.

I need to find out which money tree he has planted in his allotment because I want one...

But let's assume there is the £££ available.
I'm just not certain that the current owners of that debt will want to sell. Or if they do on what terms.

I mean legally you can't make them sell. Or is there a buy back clause?

Don't know I'm afraid - and I doubt JC does either. Bet it seemed like a good idea at the time though when he threw it out there.

I suppose if there is no buy back clause the government could give each debtor the amount to it off including early payment penalties?

But if that happened would the current owners of the debt have a case against the government for loss of anticipated revenue?

I'm sure Diane Abbott has this all sorted Carl......

What could possibly go wrong?? She'll be in charge of the Home Office next week.....😱

The Government just pays the going rate for the debt. It is a bit like nationalisation and buying an industry. The owner may not want to sell, but it has to because of a law that is passed. Possibly more difficult if the debt has been sold abroad. The cost, however, is phenomenal.

So the amount currently owed plus early payment penalties?

The amount they will pay is unknown - it will be a market descision. When the debt was sold, there were assumptions about repayments, interest rates, defaults etc. They will have to negotiate. All financial firms will accept if the offer is big enough. £30bn is a starting point.

But haven't existing debts been sold off?

No. A quick look on that internet thingy makes that obvious. It can be a half decent source of information sometimes, although perhaps less popular with those who love to promote alternative facts

The most recent proposal ( please note the word proposal )was the sell off of loans due for repayment between 2002 and 2006 and would have been the first of a four year programme of loans issued before 2012. The announcement was to start the process, as opposed to confirming completion of the sale.

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2017-02-06/HCWS458/

There have of course been sell off of earlier loans. But the current Labour pronouncements seem to be more aimed at those who have / are paying £9k fees since 2012. Oddly :) it seems not to include a suggested refund, either in part of full, for those who paid the fees up front rather than taking out a loan

So who will and who won't get their loans paid off?

So who will and who won't get their loans paid off?

That Carl really is the million dollar, or £30 billion pound, the exchange rate really has gone to pot since Brexit question

If, and it is a big one :) , Labour were to win next Thursday, or at least gain enough seats to have a majority if the SNP were included, then those starting Uni this year seem to be covered.

JC has said words to the effect that the cohorts over the past 4 years who paid 9,000 should be assessed too.

Although would they get the full 9000 back for each year.?

And if so how would those from a year earlier paying £3k fees feel?

Or would they be included too?

And going how far back?

Or would the £9k bunch (need to hold my hands up and declare a vested interest as DS1 is part of that group) maybe get whatever tuition fee they've paid up to9k less £3k for each year back? So as not to be advantage them over all those whoo had to pay up to £k annual tuition fees

Who knows. You are absolutely right to pose the question.