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Higher education

Talk to other parents whose children are preparing for university on our Higher Education forum.

Nursing or teaching degree?

64 replies

Mrsknackered · 08/05/2017 12:10

I am really stuck deciding between the two.
I've always wanted to do something medical - for a while believed it was midwifery - but I'm leaning more towards nursing now with the possibility of specialising in neonatal in the future.
I think I'd be a 'good' teacher and obviously the hours are desirable but not sure if that's enough.
Any experiences of these degrees? Do you/did you enjoy? Did you go onto this profession after graduating?

DS1 will be in Reception when I'd start and DS2 will be 10 months.

OP posts:
Mrsknackered · 08/05/2017 15:59

I put what I wanted to do on hold so my DP could go to Uni and start the career he wanted and now I think it is my turn Smile

OP posts:
scoobydooagain · 08/05/2017 16:09

Nursing post qualification can be family friendly, I work in a specialised community role, no unsocial hours, no bank holidays, no taking work home or working over my hours , however to get to this I needed to work unsocial hours. So I would only consider nursing if I had good family support as childcare for unsocial hours with little notice is a pretty big ask.

Chocolateorangegoblin · 08/05/2017 16:15

OP, are you me?! I am considering this exact choice atm. I posted a thread in AIBU recently about teacher training. It very much put me off. I think I am going to wait until the kids are a bit older and do nursing.

Mrsknackered · 08/05/2017 16:30

Chocolateorange quite possibly. A Terry's chocolate orange is my favourite thing ever.
Yeah I am surprised by the feedback, everybody I've spoken to in RL has said teaching over nursing.
How old are your children? It may be more viable if I wait longer but quite honestly being a SAHM is making me quite bitter, I love them and the thought of putting the youngest in nursery makes me very sad but I think for my mental wellbeing I need to do what I've always wanted to do!

OP posts:
lougle · 08/05/2017 16:32

Nursing and teaching are very, very different. Perhaps you need to work out what attracts you to each of them, aside from your domestic considerations, and go from there? To sustain a career in either you will need a bit more than 'it worked with my family' to see you through.

Firstly, which branch of nursing? Adult, child, learning disability and mental health nursing are all vastly different branches and careers in them will look very different. Even within branches, each specialism is incredibly different.

I'm in ICU and I will look after 1 or 2 patients at one time, but I am expected assess my patient, know everything about them, control their breathing using a ventilator, monitor and evaluate their heart rhythm and rate, control their blood pressure using powerful inotropes (short-acting drugs that can make the heart pump more effectively), monitor their fluid balance, use haemodialysis machines, work with my colleagues to stabilise a critically ill patient on admission, etc.

Another nurse may work in A&E and wouldn't be expected to be able to do that, but would be expected to be able to prioritise which patients needed to be seen soonest (triage), deal with minor emergencies, work in a team in the resus room to stabilise a critically ill patient for transfer to scan/surgery/ICU, keep relatives calm, etc.

Another nurse may work in a rehab ward, and they may need to use motivational skills, making sure they don't do everything for their patients, building strong relationships so that when their patient's mood dips they can use that relationship to reassure them that they can overcome their condition.

And then teaching....completely different to nursing.

FadedRed · 08/05/2017 16:42

Please think very carefully about going into nursing because of any other reason than you really, really, really want to be a nurse.
Not because 'it's a degree course' or 'you've got enough points' or any other reason than you WANT to nurse.
It's not fair on yourself, your future colleagues or your potential patients.
Nurses will understand what I mean.
I speak as a retired nurse who has seen what the change from the old fashioned 'apprentice' type training to the degree only training has done to recruitment. Not all for the good.

Mrsknackered · 08/05/2017 16:52

FadedRed I definitely want to nurse. The one I was umming over was teaching because I don't think that my hearts in it! I like the idea but I don't think I'd enjoy it and obviously that's not fair on the children I'm responsible for!
The only thing that's holding me back with nursing is family life and practicalities.

OP posts:
EffieWilson · 08/05/2017 17:12

So what is it that's attracting you to nursing OP? Like pp said, different branches of nursing are very different to each other, and some will have more opportunities for community/9-5 (ish) working than others. It may be also that what your attracted to in nursing overlaps with another AHP role that has more family friendly training/ posts.

EffieWilson · 08/05/2017 17:13

You're ...the shame..

Chocolateorangegoblin · 08/05/2017 17:16

My kids are 5,3 and 10 months. I'm a SAHM to but I really want to have a career at some point.
I would ideally do what someone above posted and do part time 2/3 shifts a week. I have no issue doing nightshifts/weekends etc but I'm not keen on the idea of working at home all the time which seems to be the norm for teaching. That's what is swaying me towards nursing.

EffieWilson · 08/05/2017 17:20

I think they're both vocations really. I wouldn't be swayed into nursing because you don't want to work at home as a teacher. You need to feel a passion and commitment towards what you're doing. I think nursing without that would be just a hard and demanding job that doesn't pay brilliantly without the reward of helping patients/seeing the job well done (the vocation aspect).

Mrsknackered · 08/05/2017 17:24

I'm attracted to the diversity of it. I like science and am fascinated by medicine and have been since a child, in my spare time I read medical journals and reports.
Why nursing in particular though? I thrive off human interaction (something I am missing at the moment) and I enjoy the feeling of being needed and making a difference - that might sound bad but I don't know how to word it better. Like a lot of people, the lovely nurses who put in countless hours when my baby was poorly have stayed in my memory and I think it's an amazing thing to be able to make such a difference to somebody's life.
I don't know 100% where in nursing I want to end up. I think once I'm on placement that gives me time to decide?
At the moment I am leaning towards paediatric/neonatal.

OP posts:
Hastalapasta · 08/05/2017 17:35

Interesting thread. Sounds like you should be a medic.
I was debating starting a similar thread. I have a biology degree, youngest just turned 3 still not sleeping but no idea what to do after being a SAHM for 8 years.
Food for thought here.....Grin

Chocolateorangegoblin · 08/05/2017 17:37

Effie obviously I have other reasons to be interested in either career but when thinking practically and in terms of what might work to fit in with my family, nursing sounds more flexible.
Anyway OP I will stop hijacking your thread now sorry! Good luck with whatever you decide!

EachandEveryone · 08/05/2017 17:41

I think you sound more like a medic too why not give it a shot?

tammytheterminator · 08/05/2017 17:43

I think it might help if you work as a healthcare assistant or teaching assistant. Nursing and teaching are very different jobs.

ItMustBeBedtimeSurely · 08/05/2017 17:52

I'm a student nurse and honestly, it's not as bad as some are making out. Yes, we work shifts but if you do 12 hour shifts that's your hours done in 3 days. I've never worked a 12 hour shift without a break.

I love it. It's endlessly fascinating. I'm constantly learning new things and meeting interesting people. Yes, it can be tough, and as a student you're sometimes given the shitty (literally Grin) jobs, but I'm so glad I did it.

And as a registered nurse, the choices are endless- community, hospital, day units or wards, research, clinical specialisms or management.

TellmeonaSundayplease · 08/05/2017 17:57

I'm a nurse I have been nursing for nearly 33 years I am in the leaving long term hopefully for good.
Nearly every Trust now has long days 7am-8ish pm, we rarely get a break, I often don't get to the loo but it doesn't matter because we've not drunk or ate anything in 12 hours, you hit the ground running from the moment you walk in the door and stagger home at the end of the day. Nearly all nurses work a mixture of shifts, nights and days often in the same week, so for example long day Wed, night Thursday and long day Saturday, this plays havoc with you body clock, research has shown that night workers have a higher incidence of dementia, coronary heart disease and breast cancer amongst other things. Few trusts operate a fixed rota. Basically there is nothing family friendly about the hours, or the shift patterns, annual leave at Xmas is virtually unheard of, many trusts restrict how much annual leave you can take in school holidays, a friend is only allowed to take 1 week of her annual leave during school holidays, nearly all trusts operate a electronic rota system this means that your often only guaranteed 1 request a month, I've not been given weekends off for a wedding and a very special family occasion colleagues report the same thing.
Now we come to the work load, there are 25000+ nursing vacancies in the NHS, I was told by someone the other day that even if every trained nurse in the UK was working there would still be 6000 vacancies. The nurse/patient ration is getting higher and higher 1 nurse to 16 patients (adults) is now very common. Trained nurses do not do bed baths and dive out bed pans anymore, they are expected to assess patients and make sound clinical decisions, our medical colleagues are also stretched, nurses are making often life and death decisions, and I've no problem with this but not with the current high nurse to patient ratio. We are also often the main person liasing with relatives, break bad news, comforting caring reaching out a hand to a total stranger and helping then and their relatives through terribly difficult times. Again I've no problem with this but I do not have the time to do it properly. Most of us entered a caring profession but we are not "caring" for our patients or their families, patients say the nurses never talk to them but in the majority of cases we don't get time to even say hello let alone anything more meaningful.
It's easy to assume that you go home at the end of the day and that's it, for a start many nurses don't get off duty on time because there are insufficient staff coming onto the next shift staying for a hour or so to help colleagues out is becoming increasingly common. Most nurses also have areas they are specifically responsible for and are given no time to do their in work hours, so will be working on these areas in their own time, getting funding for study fees is increasingly rare and now getting paid to attend training is very rare, you go in your own time. We have to complete a certain number of study hours to maintain our registration, (that's just the basic stuff) my trust will now only give us 6 paid ours a year to do this, all the rest in my own time including 40+ hours of on line mandatory training a year. Medicine is moving at a rapid rate as nurses we have to be up to date with these changes, so for example I am expected to spot errors in doses/type of drug prescribed by doctors, failure to do so could at best result in my going through a disciplinary at worst loosing my registration. For example a junior doctor two weeks ago prescribed completely the wrong drug for a patient (the NICE guildlines have recently changed) I am expected to spot this and point it out. So you have to be constantly keeping on top of current changes (again in your own time) If you want to seriously progress in your career you will have to do a lot more than this.
A few more things: we are up to our eyeballs in paper work, most people can't believe how much we now do, family expectation is totally out of step with the way the NHS is, patients and relatives are getting increasingly aggressive both physically and verbally, (sometimes it's justified), if your Hospital based you usually now pay to park your car (day night bank holidays etc), and can even be restricted on how often you can park I'm only allowed to park on site 4 days a fortnight I work 6 days a fortnight, nick a biscuit because you have eaten in 10 hours and you could face a discplinery, have to many days off sick we're allowed 6 a year and you face a disciplinary, we not exactly working in a healthy environment or way. Do get me write no therecate days when I come home totally exhausted but know I've done a good job but these days are becoming increasingly rare, patients are dying or developing major complications because there simply aren't enough nurse to go round, the North Staffs report stated this and it's worse now I can live with this any longer. We have not had any significant pay increase since 2010 I know why the NHS is the biggest employer in Europe they simply can't afford it but it's a big blow. You can work agency (I have done lots over the years) the advantages are: there's currently loads of work except if you work for a premium agency many trusts have banned them. flexibility, often a bit more money although this is now being capped, no departmental politics, you pick and choose where you work, but no sick pay, no NHS pension (1 perk), they usually won't even pay you to do any mandatory training, you can get cancelled up to two hours before you work and not be compensated for this, many nurses don't like moving around you still expected to hit the ground running usually with little induction 10 mins max if your lucky, and some permanent staff are for a reason I can't comprehend thoroughlt unpleasant to agency staff. I could go on and on and on and on. Finally the NHS has had it I've been nursing for 35+ years I've never seen it this bad (most of my age experience say the same thing) I'm already seeing privatisation in many areas and they'll be more this is not why I joined the NHS I can't bear to watch it.
So I've looked at changing my career for a reason Im not going to detail as I don't want to out myself I'm lucky I have other options outside of nursing. I've looked at teaching, I've spent a lot of time in schools observing what's going on. 1. The hours are significantly more family friendly, you will always know when you have to be at work, you may work from home in the evening etc marking planning lessons but you are at home. You will never actually be at work Xmas day or Wednesday night, I've yet to see a teacher work solidly for 12 + hours without getting time to even go to the loo, in most state days school's pupils are there from 8 30 ish till 4ish, yes its busy during those times but I've never seen a teacher not get at last 10 mins break. Teachers in my opinion support each other very well, nurses are notorious for dropping their colleagues in the shit. None I've looked at pay to park in the school car park. But I definitely get the impression teachers are under considerable pressure to their pupils to achieve in exams and it appears syllabuses, exams are constantly changing they are very much at the whim of who ever is in charge of the DoE at the time, this must be incredibly frustrating and generate masses of work and uncertainty. Medical staff are (hopefully) basing their care on research and NICE guildlines etc so we have something concrete to work with and something to challenge if necessary anyone who tries to change things. I get the impression in some areas of teaching it's hard to find a job, and that some teachers are being made redundant this is definitely not true in nursing we are so desperate we'll take anyone we don't even get applicants for our 7 full time vacancies let alone recruit anyone and there are a myriad opportunities. Career progression seems very good, and past experience seems to be taken into consideration.
I've also looked at more admin/managerial jobs, these vary considerably it very much depends on who you work for. But just to give you a flavour of how others work my DH manages a large part of the company he works for, he totally manages 50+ staff including their work, appraisals, disciplinary stuff, hiring, training, plus a constantly changing number of sub contractors, and projects worth millions, he leases with customers clients etc, he starts work at 7am and finishes at 6 45pm on a good day, at least two days a week he drives/trains into London and doesn't get gone before 9pm, he often brings work home and replies to emails/phone calls at the weekends, he gets 4 weeks paid holiday a year (two weeks taken at a fixed time when the company shuts down) and 5 days full sick pay, he contributes into a fairly meaningless occupational pension. We have friends who are corporate lawyers bankers etc they earn amazing money but work 18 hours a day for it get 6 weeks holiday (max) and are constantlt scared a bright thrusting young thing will take their job! He thinks teachers have no idea how many are expected to work!

TellmeonaSundayplease · 08/05/2017 17:58

Sorry for such a long post.

Mrsknackered · 08/05/2017 18:55

Sundayplease thank you for taking time out to write that. I have a lot to consider. As tragic as the way the NHS is going is (and I fear this is the swan song) that doesn't stop the fact that I know I will always regret it if I don't give it a go, and test what I'm really made of!
Life's too short and all that?

OP posts:
lougle · 08/05/2017 19:04

"Trained nurses do not do bed baths and dive out bed pans anymore..."

Again, this just shows that every area is different. In ITU the registered nurse does all of that for their patient. We have one care assistant on shift for the entire unit, and not on every shift. It is the nurses who wash, turn, and deal with the toileting needs of our patients.

PossumInAPearTree · 08/05/2017 19:05

If you want to do paeds do you not need to apply for paed nursing rather than adult? Or has this changed?

lougle · 08/05/2017 19:10

For paediatric nursing, yes, although University of Southampton have started doing a dual branch route of adult/child and adult/mental health and I think adult/learning disability, which takes 4 years and gives dual registration.

However, it is worth knowing that you don't need child branch nursing to do neonatal care. You can be adult branch, child branch or midwifery trained to work in a NICU.

noodleaddict · 08/05/2017 19:45

I think you should go for nursing OP as it sounds like you have a passion for caring. Just to second others that you can, once qualified, choose jobs that have more family friendly hours (though perhaps not if you want to do neonatal). Yes, nurses are under a huge amount of pressure but also you will have a career for life and never be out of a job. Some areas are massively stressful but they're not all like that. I did four years in hospital which was stressful but now I'm in the community and it fits around my family perfectly. I do part time, fixed days, 8-4.30, I get my lunch break, occasional coffee breaks, and quite often finish early. I actually get to do some caring for my patients. So it can be nice. I studied before I had DCs though so it will be more challenging for you, doing shifts on placements etc. However most of my classmates had kids and they all managed. Personally I'd recommend doing adult nursing as that will give you the broad knowledge and you can specialise later when you've got some experience of different areas. The only thing I'd say is that the pay is obviously pants but you know you are doing a worthwhile and valuable thing and truly helping people and when you get those bits of lovely feedback from patients and families it makes it worthwhile. Good luck!

bojorojo · 08/05/2017 22:07

Going back to my earlier post about teaching - I clearly said I was a Governor. Any decent school these days looks after teachers so they don't leave. We cannot afford to let our good staff leave because we are not flexible about work/life balance. Finding replacements is not easy so we like to keep our great staff and by and large we do. We even have a Headship job share in my LA. All schools can consider job shares and staff can ask for them. At one time we had three on the go! Why would any well run school make it so hard for staff to work when they have young families? I am not a teacher but I do know a family friendly policy when I see one!

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