Which uni to have as insurance choice?

[doglover]

Our DD is getting overly anxious about pressing the UCAS button to select her two potential universities (for English lit)....... Here is her dilemma:

Oxford (AAA) will be her Firm choice.
Firm will be either Bristol (AAB contextual offer) or Royal Holloway (AAB + A in EPQ)

She should be OK to achieve Oxford's offer but is really getting her knickers in a twist between the other 2 unis!

She has visited RH twice and loved it. It wouldn't be everyone's choice but she could see herself studying there. She's not seen Bristol yet - applicant day on 22nd Feb - but is very unsure about the poor student satisfaction rates for her subject and possible accommodation issues if it is her insurance choice. However, because it is such a well-regarded uni, she feels that it would be a better 2nd choice than RH ........

Gulp. Neither my DH or I went to university so we're not quite sure how to advise her. Does the rating of a uni carry so much weight? My heart says go with RH .....

How was it poor?

All essays counted towards your final degree mark in the second and third year, as there were no exams. I actually liked this. However, the essays were not blind marked, so tutors' prejudices could and did affect marks.

If you had a job interview that clashed with an essay deadline, rather than giving you a deadline extension, they would give you a penalty, that you could then appeal. These appeals were never turned down, but it added an unnecessary amount of stress.

There were no exams and lectures were of variable, sometimes poor quality. As there was no impetus to go to lectures, as there were no exams at the end and lectures were not always relevant to essay topics, attendance at lectures dropped off. Instead of responding to this by improving the lecture quality, whilst I was there, Bristol made the lectures compulsory. That's like people not buying Skodas because they are rubbish, so the government telling people they have to.

So, that's why I thought it was poor. However, this was 15 years ago, although looking at their website many of the lecturers are still the same, and the option topics and subject structure is almost identical.

However, the essays were not blind marked, so tutors' prejudices could and did affect marks

You know, this is an urban myth. Academic staff just don't have the mental energy to remember which students we "like" or "don't like" and mark accordingly across cohorts of 50 or 60 or 100 or 150, or whatever.

Thanks for the information, PSPD. It's good to hear some actual real-life experience from someone who has been there and done it!

15 years ago: not remotely relevant then!!! This is the trouble with MN. So much 'when I was young' out of date views!

Music at Bristol can be an issue as music grads get first pick but there is always something available and it varies year on year.

Bristol is not overly party central. I can think of a few other places that would be strong contenders - and clubbing unis too! The truth is that if you want late night entertainment in Bristol, students can live nearish to the clubs. Others who want the odd evening out live at the Halls in Stoke Bishop and don't live in a 'party house ' in Y2!

As you are talking about insurance, your DD will have a big advantage in the jobs market if she has a degree Oxford. She will not be any less worthy if she does not get there. Unless she wants to be an academic, and most people don't, then Bristol is a better bet to match Oxford. If a quieter life and being an English lecturer is a goal, then RH. RH is not UCL and is not in that league with employers. It is not a big player in the world of grad employment but that would depend on the type of job she wants to do because there is a lot more than degeee when getting a job! Even for Oxford English graduates!

If your DD liked the feel of RH, then that should clinch it.

I chose my insurance offer based on the feel good atmosphere there and the fact that all the students seemed happy and enthusiastic about the place and the course. I ended up there and I had such a good time, to the extent that I ended up glad to have missed my first choice grades!

There are tons of amateur orchestras in SW London so even if your DD couldn't get into the uni orchestra (unlikely to get in unless she plays one of the more sought after instruments or is outstandingly good at what she plays) she would find an orchestra to play in elsewhere.

I do think it's worth investigating what the accommodation situation is like for insurance students at each place.

15 years ago: not remotely relevant then!!! This is the trouble with MN. So much 'when I was young' out of date views!

bojorojo You're all over HE threads with generalisations standing as advice. What are your qualifications for making the pronouncements you make, and for your dismissals of others' posts?

I taught at RHUL about 15 years ago, and go back there regularly in both an official capacity & informally. Many things are constant, and haven't changed hugely over that time. Universities are long-lived institutions with good staff staying for their whole career, sometimes. And practices, traditions - the "flavour" of a place - is more than the sum of its parts, and also outlives individual staff.

All I can say is as an employer Bristol over RH but also as a back up is one with AAB good enough. I always thought the strategy was one a bit lower than favoured offer I case of a real issue with grades.

AAA is actually the standard offer from Oxford btw. They seem to give much lower offers than Cambridge - no idea why.

Accommodation at all Insurance offers seems to be quite a big issue. I have heard bad stories about Bristol. It would be worth checking with RH.

Having said that , a degree from Bristol will make your DD far more employable than one from RH.

I used to work in a senior post at Bristol Uni and the degree structure has changed massively in the last ten years. I'm not going to say much more as I don't wish to out myself but I do think your DD needs to visit the city and get a feel for the place before making a final decision.

Thanks everyone. We will definitely be visiting Bristol and asking questions about:

• current student satisfaction with course
• accommodation for insurance choice

My DD isn't sure about her future career path so future employability hasn't particularly cropped up ............ one for her to consider, obviously.

I am still worried by an earlier comment about having CI with asking grades not much below CF. The offers are:
A*AA Exeter (applicant doesn't like)
AAA Oxford
AAB+EPQ RH
AAB Bristol
ABB Swansea (applicant doesn't like)

Out of that list, Bristol seems a safe choice for insurance. OP I hope you are sticking with a previous decision to wait until the Bristol Offer Holders' Day and then make an informed choice between RH and Bristol. Don't be swayed into thinking of Swansea (no disrespect to Swansea but you have to admit that they are not in the same league).

Cross-post. I'm a slow typer!

Thanks Senua! :)

Bertrand obviously Oxford wants OP's DD because they gave her an offer and they barely over offer. But AAA is the standard offer.

OP my DS is going to Bristol on the 22nd too. There's no hurry to firm and insure at all - masses of time. If she really prefers RHUL after that, then surely go with RHUL. Interesting that the English course at Bristol doesn't seem to be top of the pops.

Apologies, masses of cross posts - I didn't click on the extra page. Ignore mine.

My dd is at Bristol 2nd year. It was her insurance. Didn't achieve the grades to go to her 1st choice. But I can honestly say it's the best thing that ever happened. DD is a quite, independent, introvert. Doesn't follow what the masses do. So doesn't like clubbing, heavy drinking, party games etc. If bristol is famous for that. It certainly didn't effect dd in any shape or form. She found friends that are like herself. And is thriving beyond what I had ever hoped.
I think university is what you make it. You have to go out there and imerse yourself with all there is to offer. It doesn't come to them. They have to make the effort. This applies to any uni they go to. There's always going to be compromises, nothing is perfect. I think if one is independent and mentally quite strong. They will be fine wherever they go. As they will try and counter act any negative experiences by seeing it as a necessay learning curve or make themselves stronger in order to deal with it. I wouldn't say Bristol is better so to speak just because my dd is there. Only that she made it work for her and really embraced the support and advice on offer. Good luck OP she will do just fine with whichever 2 she picks.

Bojo - you have SO many firm views about SO many universities and courses. I can't believe anyone can 'know' as much as you purport to. It might be better if you didn't present so many of your suppositions as hard facts because you run the risk of misleading posters who don't know your style.

I'm afraid sweeping statements such as, Employers like Bristol because you have to be self-motivated to do the work there are just ridiculous! Are you seriously suggesting that isn't the case at other universities?!

Coffee. Did your DD have issues with accommodation at Bristol since it was her Insurance?

Hi Jeanne, no dd didn't have problems with accommodation, UoB allocated a few halls for her to choose from. But dd didn't want to accept any as she really didn't want to live at halls as she's a quiet introvert likes peace and quite. Not saying she's not social , just that she like's to work in peace she comprised friendship and social for the peace and independence it was her choice. We found her a small studio apartment in the city. There's lots of private flats/accomodation in the city for slightly more than halls that include ensuite.

Some kids may find that hard going not making friends via halls and living on their own, but she made friends via societies, internship and on her course. It turned out out great. Friends would visit her when they were in the city. Some of the halls are located in the city so she often made friends and walk down the hill with those too. Shes Year 2 now and she's in a duo flat sharing with a friend in the city. She's just sorted out a house share with 4 others in Clifton, 3 from her course and 1 from law for years 3. So all in all she's not done things in the conventional way, to be honest it don't really matter how you goes about it, halls or private, if your fairly independent and can adapt a bit and happy to do so. They will be fine. By the time they get to year 2 a fair few choose to live on their own and especially in year 3.

I am so sorry if I have mislead people. Clearly these are my opinions and I thought that was clear. I was actually referring to another thread where disucssions had been around the amount of work and type of work that different universities require. For example low contact hours do not necessarily mean more work, they mean you have to work independently to succeed. I think it is fairly well documented that the top universities work like this and you need to prepare for seminars. It was not totally my own opinion, but a referral to other opinions I had read. I am sorry if that was not clear.

As we all know, the majority of us are Mums. (Hence MN I thought!) I am also a very old one! The majority are not lecturers or those who work in the universities. To some extent they are not users of the facilities/courses and cannot necessarily know how students feel about a university at the moment. Of course, hard facts can be presented by these people but when choosing a university, there are all sorts of factors to consider. What lecturer goes into a hall of residence? What lecturer even knows if accommodation is available to insurance choices? Do lecturers actually know what their students go on to do? What careers? How do they know what happens at the weekend? Posters here cannot even agree on that! Does that make both their assertive posts unworthy? No, they are opinions. So the opinions of professionals are worth a lot, but not everything.

Dont you just love censorship? Censorship by the people who work in the universities and other women? Do I present everything as Hard Facts - no, not really. I frequently use the words: I think. Yes, I do know a lot of people. My DDs and I have a huge array of friends, all over the place and they have expressed views on their universities. They are not wrong, they are just opinions - like everyone else's. There is no justification whatsoever in saying that only those who work in universities can post, nor that the posts must only contain "facts" rather than opinions. That cuts out most posts then so this may a well be a professional forum. I am sorry if my style offends some. Why are other Mum's opinions better than mine if they are just Mum's too? With one child at one university?

Stonecircle - you recently asked peope to compare two universities for Physics I believe. Why bother if you did not want opinions? You may as well just have asked the admisions officers!

It is interesting that very many people think personal experiences of 15 years are not relevant on other threads. Thanks to Sparkly, this has been confirmed in this case too!

Bojo - when I ask for opinions I ask for just that. Not opinions presented as hard facts.

Sorry that I haven't replied to the latest comments - only just got in from work after a full-on day.

We are really grateful for all contributions on the thread. I will show them all to DD so that she can read your thoughts, experiences and opinions. They all go into the mix and will be part of the package that will eventually help her make the best decision for her. First and foremost, though, will be the visit to Bristol next week to get the feel of the place and whether it is somewhere she'd like to study.

Do lecturers actually know what their students go on to do? What careers?
Yes, we do. We have pretty comprehensive records for this sort of thing. Alumni relations is a big thing for most departments. In mine, we know career destinations for around 95% of each cohort for the last 15 years.

Admittedly, I have no idea what my students get up to at the weekend, though but I am pretty sure it's not academic work

What lecturer goes into a hall of residence? What lecturer even knows if accommodation is available to insurance choices? Do lecturers actually know what their students go on to do? What careers? How do they know what happens at the weekend?

Yes we do know what jobs our graduates go on to do. We often write the references that get them those jobs. We often get alumni back to talk to current students about their jobs.

Hals of residence - I stay regularly in halls of other universities when I'm travelling. During university vacations it's a really cheap form of accommodation, near libraries & archives, when I' doing research. Also, most academic conferences in this country in the arts & humanities offer halls as accommodation for conference delegates (no slumming it in 4 * hotels like lawyers or medicos, with someone else picking up the bill).

We often know what they do on the weekend because we share city/town spaces with students.

I fail to see how your posts indicate opinions bojo - you state things with an emphatic tome, laying down the law in absolutes & imperatives. I've always assumed it's because you're not a native English speaker, but maybe I'm wrong, and you just don't have an ear for language & communication.

No-one is censoring - that's a straw man you've made up. Just asking about your qualifications for making such definitive statements on this (and other) threads.