Leeds vs Royal holloway ?

[Helenluvsrob]

I know it boils down to course and what dd thinks but any general comments / dc experience of these universities ?

ive a few thoughts but will wait for yours before I add my 2p worth. Thanks.

Not sure employers do though.

I was not referring to music at Exeter. I was referring to the fact it is a "go to" university for boarding school pupils. So is Durham, Bristol, Nottingham, Newcastle (for the good time types), Edinburgh if you can afford the flights back down to London. Leeds, UCL and Bath are also popular. Oxford Brookes if you cannot make "Russell Group" (I know Bath is not RG). RH attracts London students who dip in and out of London life. It is just the way it is these days.

To back up Borojo point, we know one girl who found Exeter very difficult. Not only was the course not right but she found herself in a hall with a lot of ex-boarders who she found quite cliquey.

She started again at Royal Holloway and has thrived. I think there is less social pressure, so less need to fit the mold.

Interestingly a couple of friends of DDs at Exeter are deliberately hiding the fact they went to private school. There seems to be a certain amount of them and us, and they seem to decided they would prefer to be them, rather than us. (Or vice versa?) The same problems do not seem to exist in London or York. Nor Oxbridge, except a minority who don't seem to want or be able to mix. Edinburgh and Leeds definitely seem to have ex-boarders cliques. (Lots of flash 21st birthday parties and the like.) Also probably Bristol, where DD is going. However her course will have people from a range of backgrounds, she plans to choose her accomodation carefully, and she is hoping to make friends through sport.

RH is not as good as Leeds as you can always tell by offers, can't you?

Tiger - can you really tell? DS and I have been musing over why his offer to do Physics at Nottingham is Astar A A and his offer from Southampton is AAB given that Southampton is consistently placed significantly higher for physics than Nottingham in every league table we've looked at.

I'm told on here that Nottingham is likely to relax its offer whereas Southampton is unlikely to (though that is not what Southampton says!). DS and I were falling for the 'higher offer so better university' line but are having second thoughts now (especially after a fantastic visit to the physics dept at Southampton on Saturday).

There is definitely a Surrey private school cohort at Exeter.

Needmoresleep, neighbours' gd did exactly that change and commutes daily.

stone, isn't that because the tables which suggest XYZ subject is placed higher are often wrong in terms of whta employers look for - they look at which institutions are hardest to get into which the offers you describe tally with Nottingham is always ahead of Southampton I think (hence the Nottingham offer is higher than Southampton). it's always pure market forces surely?

This is a table which is fairly good www.chambersstudent.co.uk/where-to-start/newsletter/law-firms-preferred-universities but universities with loads of students will come higher due to volume so not definitive.
Here is another
www.legalcheek.com/2016/04/revealed-the-universities-which-give-you-the-best-chance-of-making-it-to-the-top-of-the-magic-and-silver-circle/

My boys are having to choose between Bristol and Durham at the moment, they are not sure which (although one but not the other has a slightly lower Bristol offer so Bristol may end up his back up IF he chooses Durham as first choice).

I can confirm that DS2 regularly comments on all the 'posh' people at Exeter 😀. Fortunately he is a very sociable young man who gets on with most people. His insurance was Royal Holloway and he did waver as he really liked it. But he decided Exeter would look better on his cv. He also didn't fancy living in Egham after year 1.

Exeter looks better on a CV than RH. I do think we go on about posh and bo arding school pupils etc too much. Some children will get on with anyone from anywhere including my private day school son who regularly plays sport with boarding school and sink comprehensive school pupils. They are all just people. he can talk to anyone. Some people can't. I was a very shy teenager. I'd cross the road if a neighbour were walking on that side to avoid talking to them.

I agree totally Tiger. DS mentions the 'posh' people in a jokey way and I tease him saying that a lot of people might think he's posh. I also tell him that it's excellent practice (not that he needs it) for when he's working and may have to deal with people from all social classes.

I come from a working class background but went to a university which attracts a lot of private school/wealthy people. It was quite an eye-opener but it didn't particularly bother me and I don't remember a 'them' and 'us' situation.

Tiger - wrt employers, I can see that in some areas they might just go for the best university (though I'm not sure Nottingham is 'better' generally than Southampton?) But in more specific areas employers will know which departments are the best. Certainly, where I work, there's a select group of professionals who all come from a particular university because the relevant department, rather than the university, is so well thought of.

It certanly can depend on the career. My links are just for City lawyers although they also tend to recruit similaroyl to the other high paid jobs too like banks and others who want the top graduates, mostly Oxbridge. They have so many people to recruit from although they try to widen access if they can find a few universities which have the people with the highest A level exam grades they will go for them. Also you need to look at recruiters prejudices circa 1980 if people that age are recruiting by the way, not just what is the best university last week.

There are cliques of solidly working class students and cliques of very posh. Most people sit in the middle and mix with everyone!

I think some employers do look for particular universities but no-one really cares if a student studied the Wars of the Roses with a top
Professor or the literature of Medieval France with a world expert. It is what you can do that counts for most so the Departmental reputation won't matter that much, but the university and the degree classification do. If someone went to the 'right' department but had the personality of a baked bean, this person may not be a suitable employee over a candidate from the second best Department! Science subjects may differ but surely no-one should be too rigid? Great candidates could easily be overlooked.

Research has shown people tend to recruit in the image of themselves and their prejudices. Especially law, finance and city jobs.

The city banks and law firms try quite hard to recruit fairly widely to get the best candidates but mmy links above show just because of sheer weight of student numbers of students all with AAA all the way 2/1 etc they need to concentrate on the best universities or they would not have time to get through the piles of CVs. SO my daughter who didn't do law at Bristol (quite hard to get into) but a different subject was probably hired by her law firm because she went to Bristol (although everyone except her by the way on the interview assessment day was Oxbridge) rather than the subject or had she got a first from say Newcastle.

There's an awful lot of hearsay on this thread. I feel like I'm in TSR!

And the OP's DD isn't looking at Law or Finance - she's aiming to do Liberal Arts - a very different kind of degree, about which those of you who attended university 20 or so years ago don't really have much experience.

rather than the subject or had she got a first from say Newcastle

And yet Newcastle (Russell Group) is one of THE top places at which to study Medicine. so you can't generalise.

This is all v interesting

I really find it hard to comment on courses and I don't think anyone else can either really because liberal arts courses are all very different in the way they work. They are all generally very new so outcomes in terms of employability are not available.

I think this also means that that offers aren't comperable. Leeds is setting a*aa as basic offer - small cohort and as it's only a new course they want you to be a sure fire success at the end I reckon. Rh more established courses and lower offer I guess.

I think you have to go for where your child feels happy. Mine didn't like either of the Exeter campuses, but loved RHUL from the minute we got there for open day. Despite visiting other universities, that was his choice, and he has been justified in it. He isn't an into London all the time type either; he socialises with friends on campus, in the pub, or at his activity which is non university.

He liked living in Founders in Year 1, said it was like boarding at sixth form, and has been in the same house now since the start of the second year. He has a room, with internet all paid, for £366 per month for 10 months, plus half rent for July, plus bills, which have been reasonable so far. He walks about 15-20 minutes to college each way, so gets his exercise!

He is convinced enough about the place to want to stay on for his MA in September, so something is obviously clicking for him there.

That's a good rent

Very good rent , scary. Ds is in for £400 pm all year exclusive of bills next year.

He has a lovely landlord too. Ds emailed him one day to say the microwave was arcing....l/l arrived the next day with a new one. I made a point of meeting the l/l, and ensuring that I paid the rent direct to him. We have no issues!!!

I agree about happiness but you do have to keep an eye on jobs. A Liberal Arts grad is not a scientist and is up against every other arts student for jobs! Some universities, as Enormous says, open doors more than others in a highly competitive world. Also Liberal Arts can go into law. You don't have to study law at undergrad to be a lawyer. There is fierce competition for the best jobs in any field, so why put yourself at a disadvantage when you didn't need to? Some well publicised employers overlook university attended. A lot don't. Hence the competition to get in at some universities is greater than at others.

I think a lot of it depends on what kind of career you are going into, whether the crucial issue is:

what looks generically good on your CV (the name of the university= probably most employers)

what looks specifically good on your CV (a well-thought of department= some types of employers will know and care, though probably not the majority)

what you have actually learnt (there may be a few careers where that actually matters most)

Bojo As my ds has no desire whatsoever to pursue law as a career, and wants to work in history related fields, then RHUL was the right choice for him. He could teach, work for the FO, join HM Forces etc. A History degree is a useful one to have. He will (security clearance permitting) be working at a large international HQ in Brussels in the summer, and will be applying for internships there when he starts his MA. Not everything is London, money or law driven, and being happy at university is important.

Very wise advice. My son the post man of course has found his most useful qualification was his driving test passed at age 17. In fact he probably could have left school at 16 and still be in the same job (unless he moves to a graduate career in due course).

I ws only responding to Enormous! A "large international HQ" in Brussels sounds very money driven to me. Cannot see how that is so much different to someone wanting to do law internationally really. Teaching less so! Lets see what he does! Money or teaching? A DS of a friend of mine from with a history degree from RH is selling advertising space. Not everyone is successful in getting into Brussels based international HQ, even if they want it. Some just have to put up wth low wages in London.

Few recruiters need or want to know what you have learnt in an arts degree! Jane Austin specialist or the paintings of Degas. There is no space for that on an application from unless it is vital info. Generally, they just will not care and will not ask. Unless you are going into a specific degree ralated job. That is different. Many arts students do not do that. They have to compete to get any job. Locally, London or Brussels.

It is the other skills that need to be emphasised. The ones that show you are ready and capable of work. What have you done to show that your skills transfer to the workplace? What skills are they?