Maths element of Physics degree

[bigbluebus]

DS had his heart set on doing an Engineering degree having done A levels in Maths, Physics, Chemistry. He got a place at his 1st choice Uni but at end of Yr 1 he narrowly failed 2 exams - including Maths and has decided that he no longer wants to carry on with the course as he finds the Maths too challenging.

He has taken a year out to look at his options (one of which is to resit the failed modules next Summer and progress into 2nd year) and is considering a degree in a humanities subject instead. I have suggested that he looks at other science degrees eg Physics, but he thinks that the Maths element will be equally as difficult in any degree of this type.

He is really struggling at the moment as he is in negative mode due to things not going to plan, so we are not sure if there are any other science related degrees he should be considering, as neither DH or I are scientists.

Any advice anyone can give re Science subjects where the Maths element is not as heavy as engineering, which DS could explore, would be most welcome.

That sounds all too bloody familiar, Big. Support contracted out to Randstadt, by any chance? DS's 'support' worker had no more clue what he was meant to be doing than he had - for instance, not knowing that there were maths tutorials that he should have been attending...

DSA-funded support has so far been an absolute joke, and we've asked whether the uni could instead slip a weekly tenner to an older student to keep him on track. Apparently not. Subject-specific support is, I'm told, specifically excluded from the DSA funding.

It sometimes feels the system is set up for failure.

What about Geography? Can be s BSc or a BA.

"It sometimes feels the system is set up for failure."

Going to uni is not always the right option. There are apprenticeships or non traditional ways of getting a degree like the Open University. I think a student has to have a fair idea of what they are hoping to achieve by going to uni. Otherwise they will do little more than amass a huge pile of debt.

For history you generally need history A level. And even if he can find somewhere that doesn't apply, the fact that he did no essay subjects for A level will be a problem. He'd have to learn how to write essays pdq.

He doesn't sound very organised, and history is all about organising information from a wide range of sources.

In his place I would consider psychology as it's part science part humanities and it covers such a wide range of fields - there's something for everyone. And his science A levels will be relevant.

I'm sat here just writing a physics assignment. I'm 45 and am doing it through the OU full time. I'm on level 3 and hope to pass with at least a 2:1.

Before this I hadn't studied maths since O levels (and I got a C for that!). The maths has been hard, but it's doable.

The lack of an essay based A level is a disadvantage when applying for history.

But you could see if he would be interested in archaeology (which uses ever more tech) or arch and anth?

Has he looked into geography and/or geology? That might be a better fit with the subjects he's done than history. My DN did geography, when she was deciding which of her AS subjects to drop (maths, physics, geog and eng lit), some admissions tutors said she could or even should drop the geog as they'd be teaching what she needed to know on the course, so the content of the A level wasn't vital.
(I'm not sure what the maths content typically is for these subjects, I'd guess some stats at least)

Bikerunski I think he was put off Geography at GCSE - may well have been the teacher. I asked him if he would consider Geology and it got a big fat 'NO' so I think Geography would get the same.

It may be that an OU degree may be the way to go - not something he could consider for Engineering but possible for History. Ironically, the bit we thought he would struggle with - living away from home - all went fine, it is the academic side where the wheels have come off. At least with OU we could support him, although I believe that the living away from home has developed his independence enormously so it would be a massive compromise.

Lancelottie We have no idea who his support worker is employed by. It was only when he was told he could take a rep to his interview re the failed exams (which had to be a member of Uni staff, Students Union rep or Uni Chaplaincy) that we discovered she didn't work for the Uni as she said she wasn't allowed to go with him. So I agree, it is hard to see how DSA support provides value for money if it can't meet the needs of the student.

Manon I wouldn't want him to do History without doing the A level first for that very reason. Psychology is another A level he did consider so is a possibility.

RP1234 I take my hat off to you. I managed a B at O level Maths but wouldn't even begin to understand A level Maths never mind degree level!

I think it would be a shame to miss out on the social side of uni, so I don't think I'd choose OU at his age (although it has great value in other circumstances).

And it sounds like he really needs the full university experience - socially as well as academically - and learning to balance the two - as he seems a bit immature for his age. (I don't mean that unkindly in any way).

I'd also suggest looking at environmental science or maybe ocean science where there is less of an emphasis on maths but where chemistry and/or physics are required

That is true manon. Before he went away to Uni he had virtually no social life. Although he had friends at College, he never saw them outside of College. When he went to Uni we were amazed to see that he went to night clubs - which would have been the last place on Earth he would have gone previously. He also had to learn to commute by himself - when he was at home it was to easy to get lifts everywhere (we live in a rural area). Since he has been back home he hasn't been out socially at all - although he has 2 part time jobs so does go out. He is also talking about doing some travelling next Summer - something he would never have considered if he hadn't gone away last year. So the non-academic side of Uni has helped him develop massively. I think OU would be a step backwards.

What about marine engineering? or environmental systems ? This looks interesting! www.surrey.ac.uk/postgraduate/process-and-environmental-systems-engineering-2017

OOps! Sorry, that ones a Masters but you get my drift.

I've tutored maths for engineering and biochemistry students, and my husband is an academic also. If he managed A level maths and has avoided the temptation to file it all away in the "forget straight away box" (which seems to happen a lot amongst medical students to my husband's despair!), then I'd guess that any science EXCEPT physics stands a reasonable chance of being accessible. Much of higher mathematics was developed as a tool with which to do physics.

I agree it sounds like getting the support right and understanding exactly where / when / how / who to ask when things aren't going right is actually going to be critical for him. Can he speak with someone coordinating disabled students support at his original uni? I think he needs a lot of good advice from the right people to decide his way forward from here, and maybe that is the starting point to identifying who those right people might be.

Good luck helping him navigate his choices!

Before he went away to Uni he had virtually no social life

Which is understandable given his ASD, and that's why I think if he feels he can cope with it, university gives him an excellent chance to practice his social skills outside the real world of work etc.

Some people on the spectrum are very focused academically, which of course helps them. But obviously for him, he finds it a bit of a challenge.

Given his issues I think there's a lot to be said for a less academic university so that he's not struggling on that front.

I don't believe that a levels have been dumbed down as much as politicians and newspapers make out.

I am neither a politician nor a journalist. The curriculum content of Maths A level is simply not comparable now to what it was in the 1980s. Look up a paper from the 1980s and compare it with a paper from today. Also compare papers over a couple of years - on some of the maths modules the questions are really very repetitive, which encourages teaching to the test.

A number of UK university maths departments have monitored their incoming students over many years, using the same test (basis calculus etc). The scores have fallen while the incoming grades have risen. A B/C in Maths A level in the 1980s seems to be roughly comparable to an A nowadays.

Of course, this is all set to be changed with the new GCSEs and A levels. The maths curriculum will return to what it was in the 1980s -- and accordingly maths A level will become much less accessible (which is a very bad thing).

I am a physicist and agree with what most of the other posters have said if you don't have good mathematical skills and/or enjoy mathematics and are willing to put in a lot of hard work and effort to improve your mathematical skills then physics (or engineering) isn't for you. I originally applied for joint honours physics and mathematics and was told not to bother, because 'I would get all the maths I could want from my physics degree'.

I'm no expert but there are many scientific disciplines out there that are less mathematical in content, I feel it would far easier to transition into one of these rather than history.

History is quite a change. Will he have the organisational skills and self-directed work ability to research and write up essays for a history degree. I believe there is an awful lot of self-directed learning. At university undergraduate level physics and other sciences are very 'taught' degrees compared with something like history.

The key thing is for him to find something that really interests him and for him to get all the support that the university can offer him. Best of luck.